Apple to kill Pro Tools soon?

[leedsquietman]

Agree that PT has great plugins (if you get the PT HD tdm plugins at least on the 10-15k systems).

It sounds great - all the DAWS sound great ! PT LE and M-Powered don´t sound any better than Sonar, Logic, Cubase or Samplitude.

http://www.digitalmusicdoctor.com/shoot ... ummary.htm

I pretty much agree with this poll (where even Acid Pro 6 is rated higher than PTLE or M-Powered - of course the PT HD systems cannot be compared on this grid.

You could buy Sequoia and Nuendo plus real top end converters and pres (better than in the Digi 002) and still have change left over for some sweet plugins that would sound better than PT HD.

I´m not saying ProTools is bad, I don´t blame them either, they are making money for old rope just because studios fear change and invested too heavily in their product, which is proprietary, so why bother changing too much - they win by default right now...

All I´m saying is that Digidesig's stuff is overpriced and they would benefit from having stiffer competition to keep their product lines at the top not just in use but in features and innovation. Not to mention keeping prices competitive which they have very few concerns about right now.

[am is are]

And Apple to kill anything is debatable - Apple tried and failed to kill IBM and PC machines and still have a pathetic market share. Although they do have strong niche markets such as graphic design and music production the average joe home computer guy rarely goes for the fruit !!

Now I like Apple and their products but they are the number 1 generators of spiel and spin...which is why I can´t see them making a hardware based 10-15k music production studio module in the mould of ProTools HD TDM system.

don't be too sure: birds are singing that Apple will be releasing a Final Cut Extreme Hardware/Software package (around $10,000) to directly compete with AVID Media Composer systems in the Video Production field.


peace

[sweetjesus]

Agree that PT has great plugins (if you get the PT HD tdm plugins at least on the 10-15k systems).

It sounds great - all the DAWS sound great ! PT LE and M-Powered don´t sound any better than Sonar, Logic, Cubase or Samplitude.

http://www.digitalmusicdoctor.com/shoot ... ummary.htm

I pretty much agree with this poll (where even Acid Pro 6 is rated higher than PTLE or M-Powered - of course the PT HD systems cannot be compared on this grid.

You could buy Sequoia and Nuendo plus real top end converters and pres (better than in the Digi 002) and still have change left over for some sweet plugins that would sound better than PT HD.

I´m not saying ProTools is bad, I don´t blame them either, they are making money for old rope just because studios fear change and invested too heavily in their product, which is proprietary, so why bother changing too much - they win by default right now...

All I´m saying is that Digidesig's stuff is overpriced and they would benefit from having stiffer competition to keep their product lines at the top not just in use but in features and innovation. Not to mention keeping prices competitive which they have very few concerns about right now.

yes im talking about the top end plugins and the fact that someone on pro tools LE can go to a studio with the HD setup and without any fuss or bollocks involved in transferring the project, have the resources of that studios pro tools rig available on their project.

so people can render their tracks out and import into other daw's but with all the little edits and automation that may already exist not to mention basic time consumed doing exporting and importing, this can drive a studio session's price from something managable to steep.

the reason people use the low end pro tools stuff is to then be able to port it to the top end and in the top end pro tools is king because of how it integrates into top end studio systems which have been built around it.

yes you could buy any DAW and a nice AD for the cost of a 002r, but lets face it people who want a 002r usually do so because they want pro tools and why do they want pro tools? ... because of the reasons i mentioned above.

i personally dont have any complaints about the pro tools UI/interface. I find it to be clutter free, does a heck of a job at editing and it has all the functionality the a recording and mixing facility requires.

also its cross platform, doesnt have the chance to have a platform yanked away from it like logic did.. furthermore, it has the support base that large companies (yes studios are companies) look for.

take for example steinberg, they have nearly become broke and been bought and sold and reshuffled so many times, i cant blame a facility for not knowing whether their dealing with pinnacle or yamaha?.. although yamaha should stabilize steinberg now.

i dont want to sound like a fan boy, but i just see people wanting businesses to be what they are not and digidesign is not in the high volume low margin game.

[mike holiday]

Question for pro tools users out there- What can you do in Pro Tools that you can't do in Live. I'm just curiuos.

Jamie

crossfades? grouping tracks?

+ playlists? superior audio editing?


live is all i need tho

[Mike Goodwin]

Although in the case of Apple, rumors always need to be taken with a grain of salt, former E-magic employees claim that Apple is working on a pro-tools killer. Apple's current production suite, Logic has always enjoyed a solid reputation, but merely as a mid-range professional solution, with Pro-tools being alone at the top.

Pro-tools is the most popular because it's easy to use and compatible with every computer; not because it's the "best".

Logic is, by far, more powerful than Pro-tools and is definitely a high-range professional solution. Unfortunately, it has a steep learning curve and only works on Apple's. It's not easy for people to transfer sessions from one studio to the next, since not every engineer or producer knows Logic. That's why it isn't as popular.

I do hope to see a Logic successor, however, if it promises what these rumors have alluded to. I also hope it's easier to learn and use.

.02

"and compatible with every computer; not because it's the "best". "

That is one of the most missleading things I have read in a internet forum in a long time.

[kramerica]

Although in the case of Apple, rumors always need to be taken with a grain of salt, former E-magic employees claim that Apple is working on a pro-tools killer. Apple's current production suite, Logic has always enjoyed a solid reputation, but merely as a mid-range professional solution, with Pro-tools being alone at the top.

Pro-tools is the most popular because it's easy to use and compatible with every computer; not because it's the "best".

Logic is, by far, more powerful than Pro-tools and is definitely a high-range professional solution. Unfortunately, it has a steep learning curve and only works on Apple's. It's not easy for people to transfer sessions from one studio to the next, since not every engineer or producer knows Logic. That's why it isn't as popular.

I do hope to see a Logic successor, however, if it promises what these rumors have alluded to. I also hope it's easier to learn and use.

.02

"and compatible with every computer; not because it's the "best". "

That is one of the most missleading things I have read in a internet forum in a long time.

Logic works on PCs?

[Machinesworking]

Question for pro tools users out there- What can you do in Pro Tools that you can't do in Live. I'm just curiuos.

Jamie

crossfades? grouping tracks?

+ playlists? superior audio editing?


live is all i need tho

The superior audio editing point here is being overlooked. Pro tools is geared towards replacing two inch tape. Live is by far a loop composing tool and sequencing environment. Pro Tools is a live tracking studio environment. BIG difference. Pro Tools HD on a G5 or a new Intel mac would smoke Live in sheer audio track count, as well as probably plug ins. Plus Pro Tools has cornered some very high end plug in makers who write exclusively for PT.
Logic is great as a composing tool, in many ways better than Live, the MIDI editing is the best out there IMO, but it sucks as a live sequencing environment, and audio editing in it is crap compared to Pro Tools, Nuendo, or Digital Performer. You cannot even render plug ins to audio in it's audio editor, and every task similar to Live's simple in place rendering of an audio file involves bouncing.
Basically Apple have their work cut out for them if they are going to transform Logic into a Pro Tools killer. In many ways Steinberg would have been a better choice for this if that's what they had in mind when they purchased Emagic.

[nuperspective]

surely logic must be getting to the point where regular users just dont need to upgrade. even pro users and people who write the trade press admit theres features in logic they have no idea how to use or get the best out of. its a beast of a program and users who have been with it for years still have a long way to go.

why would you upgrade logic 7.0 with all it features???

so how do you get people to upgrade???

how do you get your costs back on a major re-write???

you ditch the name and bring in something new and force people into a crossgrade offer.

[sweetjesus]

surely logic must be getting to the point where regular users just dont need to upgrade. even pro users and people who write the trade press admit theres features in logic they have no idea how to use or get the best out of. its a beast of a program and users who have been with it for years still have a long way to go.

why would you upgrade logic 7.0 with all it features???

so how do you get people to upgrade???

how do you get your costs back on a major re-write???

you ditch the name and bring in something new and force people into a crossgrade offer.

new architectures such as VST3.0 ... new bundled plugins... improved performance, better algorithms, 64 bit data processing, 64 bit signal processing....

[R.J.Dubya]

I disagree with the initial statement that pro tools stands alone at the top. Like someone said, it was heavily adopted when it was at the top and is easy, and it's just not that easy for everyone to switch DAW setups all the time, so it's still widely used. But Logic,cubase and a bunch of others are definitely just as capable.

As for the Logic successor, my theory on this has for some time been that apple's working away on some nifty, feature packed but easy to use super-daw which borrows heavily from Logic in sound quality (synths,effects etc.) but is completely re-written in terms of design. I'm doubtful that the next version will even be called Logic, it just seems like apple will want to come up with there own fancy little little gay name like istudio pro or something. Whatever. It'll be awesome and you all know it. Logic is already a great daw but is getting outdated in terms of workflow, and it has been a while since a real upgrade. Even 7 was still really just 6 was a bunch of apple-ish extras and good time bonus features.

Apple. Love 'em or hate 'em, you know they'll put out a decent product when they're due. Might take too long and be a little overpriced, but it's usually pretty damn slick. And I'm sure the child of Logic will be no different.

I've been on the fence for a while about selling Logic since I'm so into Live these days, but for the price I'd get, I think it would be a mistake, as I'll just wish I hadn't when the big one comes.

One-fiftieth of a dollar from me to you. Count it.

[nuperspective]

surely logic must be getting to the point where regular users just dont need to upgrade. even pro users and people who write the trade press admit theres features in logic they have no idea how to use or get the best out of. its a beast of a program and users who have been with it for years still have a long way to go.

why would you upgrade logic 7.0 with all it features???

so how do you get people to upgrade???

how do you get your costs back on a major re-write???

you ditch the name and bring in something new and force people into a crossgrade offer.

new architectures such as VST3.0 ... new bundled plugins... improved performance, better algorithms, 64 bit data processing, 64 bit signal processing....

i didnt really mean it like that - what im trying to say is when a program gets to that level of maturity and depth, it must be difficult to bring in the new and old punters.

as for vst 3.0 and 64 bit thats the next real step forward as far as programs go. it will be hard for logic to 'set imaginations on fire' for old and new users due to its market rep and the number of very competitive programs out there. a new program and identity would resolve that issue and reboot the brand. im not saying logic is past its prime. its just the conversation has gone in this direction.

[sqook]

Logic works on PCs?

It did until version 5.5.1, when emagic quit developing it on that platform. There are a surprising number of users still on it, though...

[hoffman2k]

Iz all 'bout tha paradigm, innit?

There are different needs for different people.
Some people like pro tools for its features and easy of use. Others like it cause it has the word "pro" in it.

Aren't we all a bunch of people from different schools of thought?

I like Live cause it has the word "Live" in it
Others like Logic, cause to them it makes sense.

And even if everybody was a Live user, we don't use it all in the same way..

The "best" audio app is a paradigm in digital audio....

Apple killing pro tools with a touch screen thingy?
Its part of a bigger thing..
Fanboy or not. Apple is coming out with a tablet. (probably around 2018)
The tablet will be marketed to graphical designers.
We will benefit, because graphical designers require finer resolutions to draw/edit stuff.
"Apple" can be substituted for prety much any other major computer company...
Who knows how many licenses that Jeff Hann has sold. Or what jazzmutant is cooking up. I'm even keeping my eye on our very own Sweetjesus

2007 sounds like a pretty fun year if you just judge it by the amount of times somebody linked a youtube video of lemur, reactable, Jeff hann,.... in 2006

[Pitch Black]

why would you upgrade logic 7.0 with all it features???

so how do you get people to upgrade???

how do you get your costs back on a major re-write???

I have to upgrade from Logic 6.4.3 to 7 because I've just bought an Intel Mac. I was perfectly happy with the feature-set in 6.4.3 - that shit even runs in OS9 on my old machine!!

Apple will make back their money by selling hardware. They are in a unique position to use software as a loss-leader to drive the sales of new Macs.

[nuperspective]

i know i did want to bring up the whole forced upgrade thing as it would have looked like a apple haters thread.