OT: The death penalty for cracked software - too harsh?

[leedsquietman]

OK noise, obviously got a wire crossed there I thought that seemed a strange concept !

friend kami - I agree it's starting to get a bit tedious, but also the number of people coming on here just plain bragging about how cool they are because they are running a crack recntly is also pretty nauseating - pirating will always happen but the more users come on here boasting about it, the more likely Ableton are to do a Steinberg and make the user forum only for registered users only where you must input serial codes to participate. I personally think that is a bad thing, certainly the Cubase forum suffered a lot in terms of participation after that. I like the forum as it is. Another thought - if this is getting boring, don't add more fuel to the fire by participating in the thread. In a month or two, when Live 8 is released, you won't hear or see any more of these threads for months after...

[smutek]

Personally I don't really care if people use cracked software. What bugs me is when they come to an official company forum, openly admit, or make no attempt to conceal that they are using stolen software, and ask for help.

It's not the asking for help part that bothers me, I just think that if they are using a pirated version they should keep this information to themselves. It just seems arrogant, ignorant, and stupid to me.

It's really none of anyone's business so why not just keep it to yourself?

[dm_hawk]

Personally I don't really care if people use cracked software. What bugs me is when they come to an official company forum, openly admit, or make no attempt to conceal that they are using stolen software, and ask for help.

It's not the asking for help part that bothers me, I just think that if they are using a pirated version they should keep this information to themselves. It just seems arrogant, ignorant, and stupid to me.

It's really none of anyone's business so why not just keep it to yourself?

+1

And what's with all this "just get a job" bullshit? Have you seen any news headlines lately? If anyone could simply get off his/her lazy ass and "get a job," the world economy would be in a very different state at the moment. People who use cracks have individual reasons for doing so, and it's silly to assume they are all lazy weed-smoking basement dwellers living off mommy/daddy/government check, etc.

I was quite poor when I got my first computer - it was such a massive investment for me that paying $100s for decent software was out of the question. This was a while back, when there wasn't much capable freeware available. Was I going to choose not to make music for several years and then pick it up when I had the money for software? Hell no. I loaded that puppy up with warez, made my music, established a workflow, decided what software worked best for me, then, as time passed and my financial situation got better, I bought real copies of said software. I was glad to get rid of the cracks - most of them were unstable anyway. Eventually, I bought a new computer and loaded it up with $1000s of dollars worth of legit software, because I could afford it. I'm happy that I don't have a single crack running on this machine, but I don't feel the least bit guilty about having used them in the past and I would never criticize someone who uses cracks because they can't afford the real thing. The simple fact is that no one "lost" money as a result of my actions since, at the time, I didn't have any money to give them in the first place - it was a choice between making music and not making music.

[Mike Goodwin]

I like how the Reason forum works. There is an open forum and a Registered forum. Makes sense to me. If i remember right anyone can read the registered forum but only people with a license can post in it. This way it becomes quite obvious who has stolen the product and who owns it. Of course there are ways around this but it sets a tone.

[leedsquietman]

This is the same as the Cubase forum - in order to post, you are required to enter your dongle serial codes. Any casual observer can read the posts.

I'm sure Ableton are going to implement this here pretty soon if we keep getting all the crack sympathizers posting.

I appreciate the points of someone like DMHawk and others, who are candid about past warez use but progressed to legit use.

The only problem is that that they represent a tiny minority.

Most users of illegal software have no intention of ever paying for it, whether they are poor or rich - they stay richer and can afford to buy Ipod touch and Iphones and expensive designer duds by not paying Ableton and others. The poor can buy Reaper for as cheap as chips, or use reasonable freeware such as Acid XMC, but they choose not to. Most have no justification.

Whatever, this thread is getting tired now. But those who run cracks and come on here for free tech support, or those running studios or claiming to be a 'producer' selling services to clients on cracked software, they deserve to be given wedgies and chinese burns and then be used as a pinata and be beaten repeatedly with a big stick.

[friend_kami]

Personally I don't really care if people use cracked software. What bugs me is when they come to an official company forum, openly admit, or make no attempt to conceal that they are using stolen software, and ask for help.

It's not the asking for help part that bothers me, I just think that if they are using a pirated version they should keep this information to themselves. It just seems arrogant, ignorant, and stupid to me.

It's really none of anyone's business so why not just keep it to yourself?

+1

And what's with all this "just get a job" bullshit? Have you seen any news headlines lately? If anyone could simply get off his/her lazy ass and "get a job," the world economy would be in a very different state at the moment. People who use cracks have individual reasons for doing so, and it's silly to assume they are all lazy weed-smoking basement dwellers living off mommy/daddy/government check, etc.

I was quite poor when I got my first computer - it was such a massive investment for me that paying $100s for decent software was out of the question. This was a while back, when there wasn't much capable freeware available. Was I going to choose not to make music for several years and then pick it up when I had the money for software? Hell no. I loaded that puppy up with warez, made my music, established a workflow, decided what software worked best for me, then, as time passed and my financial situation got better, I bought real copies of said software. I was glad to get rid of the cracks - most of them were unstable anyway. Eventually, I bought a new computer and loaded it up with $1000s of dollars worth of legit software, because I could afford it. I'm happy that I don't have a single crack running on this machine, but I don't feel the least bit guilty about having used them in the past and I would never criticize someone who uses cracks because they can't afford the real thing. The simple fact is that no one "lost" money as a result of my actions since, at the time, I didn't have any money to give them in the first place - it was a choice between making music and not making music.

exactly my point aswell.
here, have a beer, its on the house.

[friend_kami]

This is the same as the Cubase forum - in order to post, you are required to enter your dongle serial codes. Any casual observer can read the posts.

I'm sure Ableton are going to implement this here pretty soon if we keep getting all the crack sympathizers posting.

I appreciate the points of someone like DMHawk and others, who are candid about past warez use but progressed to legit use.

The only problem is that that they represent a tiny minority.

Most users of illegal software have no intention of ever paying for it, whether they are poor or rich - they stay richer and can afford to buy Ipod touch and Iphones and expensive designer duds by not paying Ableton and others. The poor can buy Reaper for as cheap as chips, or use reasonable freeware such as Acid XMC, but they choose not to. Most have no justification.

Whatever, this thread is getting tired now. But those who run cracks and come on here for free tech support, or those running studios or claiming to be a 'producer' selling services to clients on cracked software, they deserve to be given wedgies and chinese burns and then be used as a pinata and be beaten repeatedly with a big stick.

you know. as a software company you should realise that pirated copies of your product can actually help you. most people i know that uses live HAVE been using a cracked version before finally caving in and buying it. they wouldnt have bought it if they wouldnt had the cracked version int he first place.

ableton took the highroad and gave us one of the most generous demo limitations available to counter this. a perfect choice from their standpoint. most other companies would respond in an all-out war against it.

now, what they can do instead of closing down the forum is to make the share live set available for registered users only, for example. this way, when you get the pirate version of live, you get the demo, only working for longer, more unstable then the legit version and missing one of its better features: share live set.

well then enough to consider paying for.

[mkelly]

you know. as a software company you should realise that pirated copies of your product can actually help you. most people i know that uses live HAVE been using a cracked version before finally caving in and buying it. they wouldnt have bought it if they wouldnt had the cracked version int he first place.

@friend_kami
To me, this argument always misses out one very important factor - time. Companies don't have an infinite amount of money to burn through (though some act like they do!) While it's great that people do eventually pay for the software, there is always the chance that they're too late. The fact that they used it without paying (along with thousands of other illegitimate users) means that a company can go under. This is definitely something people should consider when it comes to smaller companies or one-man operations.

@others
To those who say "I spent a lot of money on a computer and couldn't afford to pay for the software" - I say "Learn to budget". If you bought slightly less RAM, or a smaller HD now, you might have been able to afford the software. Then when you can afford it, upgrade your machine. I know this is a simplistic view, but I think it's a fair point.

Remember that expensive software is not your only option. There is a lot of free (and very cheap) software out there. Yeah, it might not be as cool as Live or Logic or Cubase with all the best features. Let's not forget how much great music was made with severe limitations. It may just be the best learning experience of your musical career.

Let's not forget people that the world does not owe us the best of everything. Sometimes we can't have the things we really want and have to make do with what can get. That's why some dudes end up with ugly women. No disrespect intended to dudes who like their women ugly.

[silveriofunk]

try before you buy...

[mkelly]

As an addition to my last post, I'd like to call for all software producers - big and small - to ensure that their demo versions (if they have them) are usable. Severely crippled demos - e.g. can't go 5 mins without random squawks, just antagonise people who are genuinely trying out the software.

[UncleAge]

@friend_kami
To me, this argument always misses out one very important factor - time.

Very good point.

And even though I think patent/copyright laws need an overhaul, I can't justify theft. The fact that it's not hardware has caused some to think there should be a debate on the ethics of acquiring something unlawfully. Wow! I dont get that. And I don't get the argument for those less fortunate than I, having some right to have what I have...just because they exist. Some of us have and some of us don't. That's life. Are they going to steal that piano because they should have the right to play it? They steal software because it's low hanging fruit.

For the most part I could care less. It's not keeping me up at night. I don't let crooks at AIG/Enron/BofA/the corner/the hospital or another place keep me up at night. However, I don't see the argument for breaking the law. Now changing the law, that's a different discussion. And probably just as fruitless (remember the Golden Rule).

[mkelly]

And even though I think patent/copyright laws need an overhaul

I'd like to see patents on technology overhauled for sure. I'm not 100% up on patent/copyright law, but I suspect that when patent law was introduced the lifetime of a technology was probably longer than it is now. Someone said in another post that patents were introduced to give an inventor some time to enjoy the commercial success of what they worked to invent. I think this is good and fair, but for a fast paced world like music tech, a 20 year patent (for example) could outlast the usefulness of the technology.

In fact this could be bad for technology in general - if a patent is held too long it could stifle enhancement of that technology until well after people have given up and moved on.

[Mike Goodwin]

Although I can honestly say that I own all the software that I use I have used cracks of some programs (plugins) that do not offer a decent demo. The reason for this is plain and simple. I have bought very expensive software only to find that under some situations that I use it in cause it not to operate. In this case I have been shafted more than once by the developer. No refund, major losses in resale. Paying hundreds to have software that fails to work has driven me to use warez in these situations. After learning the companies ethics I simply never buy a product from them again. And when people ask me what I think, I tell them to but buy there products. I am happy to say that I think I have finally (after saying it about a thousand times) got enough software to keep me going for several years before I feel a real need fore anything more.

[Yhtomit]

It's not fair a company won't allow the transfer of your license. Or if software comes with some iLok protection, I'd say: fuck it too

[Mike Goodwin]

It's not fair a company won't allow the transfer of your license. Or if software comes with some iLok protection, I'd say: fuck it too

I think iLok is crap. It protects nothing. Syncrosoft are on to something though. They have kept things like Cubase safe.