Audio & Midi Recorded offset.

rhythminmind · Post by **rhythminmind** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:43 pm

I'm a huge Live fan & user but i have one issue i can't get my head around.
I know this topic has been discussed to some degree. Has it just become commonly accepted that anything you record & monitor is out of time with what you originally played?

For those unaware

Example's =
If you plug in any live input (Bass, vocal mic, midi keyboard, anything) Hit play, & start recording you will not be recording what your playing to the music but the delayed output based on your latency settings. This is fine for software monitoring you can't get around that. But for the actual audio&midi that gets recorded should be compensated.

There is a PITA is a workaround.
Tracks record in time if you turn off the monitoring for that track.
So you need to make 2 tracks for every live input.

One to be the record track.
One to be the monitor source or VSTi track.

Turn the monitor off on the record track and route the signal to the monitor track.

I wish this delay was compensated like most other hosts.

mqbernardo · Post by **mqbernardo** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:06 pm

rhythminmind wrote:I wish this delay was compensated like most other hosts.

i´m with you on that one. this should have been addressed already. but better late...

cheers!

rhythminmind · Post by **rhythminmind** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:09 pm

So i got a message saying that the Driver error compensation Lesson solves this problem.
Not the case.
This calibrates your system timing to work better with monitoring off. So the 2 track work around is still the only way to record with proper timing. Both Audio&midi.

rhythminmind · Post by **rhythminmind** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:52 pm

Is this fixed in Live 8?

rhythminmind · Post by **rhythminmind** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:06 pm

(pic example)
tracks 1 & 2 = same audio input recording me clapping.
Track 1 has monitoring off
Track 2 has monitoring on auto/on during record.

tracks 3 & 4 = same midi input recording me tapping my midi controller.

Track 3 has monitoring off
Track 4 has monitoring on auto/on during record.

SWAN808 · Post by **SWAN808** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:18 pm

He he - hi Vieris - its SWAN808 - I just decided to come here and see what the other Live users thought about this problem - and here you are

Not much other chat about it tho?

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:20 pm

i just tested midi in Live 8 (beta 4) and its still the same.

for what its worth you can add my vote to having an option to choose.

im sure there must be some people who like it the way it is, but i would definitely switch it to 'record what you play'

lunabass · Post by **lunabass** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:59 am

rhythminmind wrote:Has it just become commonly accepted that anything you record & monitor is out of time with what you originally played?

nice concise post rhythinmind. highlights the issue perfectly

i know i've just accepted it. i've gotten so used to using the 2 track method you've described that i tend not to give it a second thought and get on with it.
it's only when i stop to think about it or read a thread such as yours that i scratch my head and wonder why.

i'd love ableton to give us the type of delay compensation found in other hosts. it's not a deal breaker for me as live offers me many benefits and workflow enhancements that far outway this annoyance...but it does seem a little odd that we are still dealing with this in V8

jacob_ma · Post by **jacob_ma** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:19 am

If I have a dedicated MIDI record or AUDIO record channel, which passes through to a channel with monitoring switch on.... will this fix the issue?

I believe we need a resonable work around as Abes' is not going to fix this anytime soon. The whole Audio Engine has a serious flaw by the looks and may need a major overhaul...probably for Live 9.

(just being realistic)

iridite · Post by **iridite** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:15 pm

Wow - i thought this only happened to me and I was going a bit mad! Here's the setup I had:

Ableton sending MIDI clock to Elektron SFX-60 and TR-909

Audio routed to Live via Mackie Onyx 1640 with Firewire card- shows up as 16 inputs in Live.

I set up 16 tracks to record the individual outputs of the instruments and hit go on Ableton.

When I checked back after recording, all the tracks were delayed by the same amount, ie none of them started at Bar 1, Beat 1.

I experimented with a Focusrite Saffire, a Tascam US1-122, a Novation Nio and other interfaces before I gave up and just stopped working that way- I meant to post about it but never found time.

Reading the various posts about this it implies that if I turn off monitoring then each track would be in time? Wow, wish I knew that was the case about 9 months ago. What a weird inconsistency in the normally near-perfect Live!

timeline85 · Post by **timeline85** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:34 pm

I've been having these kinds of problems with my Virus TI but was able to get around them by putting the TI into "Live" mode. I will try this with soft synths when I get home and see if I can duplicate the problem.

Of course I use really small buffers, maybe I haven't noticed it because of that?

rhythminmind · Post by **rhythminmind** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:41 pm

timeline85 wrote: Of course I use really small buffers, maybe I haven't noticed it because of that?

That is exactly why it's not usually noticed. This topic has exploded in another thread if you want to read about it. I didn't notice until i was tracking my midi drum kit a few years ago. I always blamed my crappy key parts on my key skills, but the recording of late midi was a big factor as well

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... highlight=

tlog333 · Post by **tlog333** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:51 am

Thanks for the trick, I was always manually dialing in the delay compensation which is a pain. I don't remember Ableton always working this way

Audio & Midi Recorded offset.

Audio & Midi Recorded offset.

Re: Audio & Midi Recorded offset.

Re: Audio & Midi Recorded offset.

Huge issue for me as well