autmap 3 beta testers

ze2be · Post by **ze2be** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:53 pm

hey, just a question: would automap let you use a not listed by Live midi controller as a "control surface" ?

I have the Remote Zero SL which works great as a control surface/midi controller split interface. Some pots are hard coded to macros in Live, and some are free for assigning. I would love to do the same thing with my custom build midi instrument.

xherv · Post by **xherv** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:15 pm

hey, just a question: would automap let you use a not listed by Live midi controller as a "control surface" ?

I don't believe so, the scheme is Device(USB port)->Automap(Internal)->MIDI; I'd imagine the hardware and Automap have some kind of handshake that's proprietary. It would be smoother than lego tits if Novation figured out something smart along these lines though, for working with units they didn't manufacture (and would justify paying $30 for Automap Pro!)

But - You can make a control surface map for anything that puts out MIDI. I think there's a UserConfiguration.txt or something along those lines that, you'll find some resources for putting together a control surface map there.

Another forum poster (Ultra) was working on integrating some LiveAPI stuff (through which a lot more interface stuff should be possible than is currently being done) with MIDIBox, that should be interesting.

I'm speculating but it's plausible that there will be something interesting from Ableton/Cycling at NAMM concerning the handling of hardware interfaces, people have been doing interesting things with Max/MSP and hardware IIRC.

ze2be · Post by **ze2be** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:59 pm

xherv wrote:I don't believe so, the scheme is Device(USB port)->Automap(Internal)->MIDI; I'd imagine the hardware and Automap have some kind of handshake that's proprietary. It would be smoother than lego tits if Novation figured out something smart along these lines though, for working with units they didn't manufacture (and would justify paying $30 for Automap Pro!)

But - You can make a control surface map for anything that puts out MIDI. I think there's a UserConfiguration.txt or something along those lines that, you'll find some resources for putting together a control surface map there.

Another forum poster (Ultra) was working on integrating some LiveAPI stuff (through which a lot more interface stuff should be possible than is currently being done) with MIDIBox, that should be interesting.

I'm speculating but it's plausible that there will be something interesting from Ableton/Cycling at NAMM concerning the handling of hardware interfaces, people have been doing interesting things with Max/MSP and hardware IIRC.

hello xherv, I got all the answers in this thread: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=818414#818414

Krugger · Post by **Krugger** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:28 pm

Krugger wrote:Does it work with Nocturn? Also, does the Nocturn finally works with Logic (using HUI)?

thanks

Well I answered my own question this morning and tried the Nocturn with Automap 3 on HUI mode

Works great - the Nocturn is now handier than ever.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:30 pm

automap?!?!?!?!? lmfao!!! automap just went the way of the betamax!!!

good riddance!!

Geezus · Post by **Geezus** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:10 pm

Tone Deft wrote:automap?!?!?!?!? lmfao!!! automap just went the way of the betamax!!!

good riddance!!

it did? I must have missed it because the new akai live controller seems to only be a better solution for triggering clips and other live-related shit, whereas automap is still the king of vst control

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:12 pm

Geezus wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:automap?!?!?!?!? lmfao!!! automap just went the way of the betamax!!!

good riddance!!
it did? I must have missed it because the new akai live controller seems to only be a better solution for triggering clips and other live-related shit, whereas automap is still the king of vst control

if you're talking about automap being useful for non-Ableton software, I see your point, automap has its place. but like Sonar got Live to go with 64 bit summing, OSC in Live will push others to add OSC.

time will tell.

I was an early adopter with automap, I liked it, then ver 2.0 came out and it's complete bullshit. I can grasp max 'programming' and other stuff, automap, the automap server and all the modes it can be in are total bullshit, really bad designing. I have a pretty high tolerance for workarounds and wrestling with gear, fuck automap. it's great when it works, I have a working setup but I don't have problems because I don't tweak it or use it to its full extent.

Geezus · Post by **Geezus** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:48 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
Geezus wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:automap?!?!?!?!? lmfao!!! automap just went the way of the betamax!!!

good riddance!!
it did? I must have missed it because the new akai live controller seems to only be a better solution for triggering clips and other live-related shit, whereas automap is still the king of vst control
if you're talking about automap being useful for non-Ableton software, I see your point, automap has its place. but like Sonar got Live to go with 64 bit summing, OSC in Live will push others to add OSC.

time will tell.

I was an early adopter with automap, I liked it, then ver 2.0 came out and it's complete bullshit. I can grasp max 'programming' and other stuff, automap, the automap server and all the modes it can be in are total bullshit, really bad designing. I have a pretty high tolerance for workarounds and wrestling with gear, fuck automap. it's great when it works, I have a working setup but I don't have problems because I don't tweak it or use it to its full extent.

automap 2.0 is actually a godsend for me. makes it real easy to see what I'm doing and pimp out the controls fully custom style, and the endless amount of control it gives is also nice. All 16 midi channels plus an endless number of instruments, effects, etc all with custom configurations and behavior. I dont like its automatic assignments, they are usually worthless to me, but once I've got a map I like I never have to do it again.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:58 am

Geezus wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:
Geezus wrote: it did? I must have missed it because the new akai live controller seems to only be a better solution for triggering clips and other live-related shit, whereas automap is still the king of vst control
if you're talking about automap being useful for non-Ableton software, I see your point, automap has its place. but like Sonar got Live to go with 64 bit summing, OSC in Live will push others to add OSC.

time will tell.

I was an early adopter with automap, I liked it, then ver 2.0 came out and it's complete bullshit. I can grasp max 'programming' and other stuff, automap, the automap server and all the modes it can be in are total bullshit, really bad designing. I have a pretty high tolerance for workarounds and wrestling with gear, fuck automap. it's great when it works, I have a working setup but I don't have problems because I don't tweak it or use it to its full extent.
automap 2.0 is actually a godsend for me. makes it real easy to see what I'm doing and pimp out the controls fully custom style, and the endless amount of control it gives is also nice. All 16 midi channels plus an endless number of instruments, effects, etc all with custom configurations and behavior. I dont like its automatic assignments, they are usually worthless to me, but once I've got a map I like I never have to do it again.

I'm not feeling any love for Automap. Work has slowed down enough for me to get into it, and right away it seems kind of stupid that you can't have a situation where the right hand controllers are all performing Mackie Control type DAW tracks mapping while the left controls Automaped plug ins. In my set up there's sometimes a serious lag between the two Automaps, Universal and Ableton's. Apparently in Cubase you can use Universal for everything, but it's not so slick in Live.

So instant Mapping only works if you forgo DAW features, not too great.

To me then, Universal mode is only useful in the studio, as live I pretty much need instant access to faders in case of emergency situations.

Love to be corrected on this.

Porpy · Post by **Porpy** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:27 am

I agree that it would be useful to have them all in one preset.

In the meantime it works pretty well (for me anyway) if you don't mind switching templates on the SL.
I just use the +/- buttons to skip between 38 and 40.

The lag is there moving from automap to the Live template but I think that is more just the display updating because the sliders will work immediately while the display is catching up (this is on Automap BetaFc3 btw).

P.

Geezus · Post by **Geezus** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:43 am

It all comes down to how you work. If automap isnt your thing it isnt your thing. I find it indispensable due to its endless flexibility when it comes to plugin maps and midi controls. As far as DAW controls, my needs are simple, just transport/record and channel faders are all I need or want. The APC is better suited for launching clips and stuff like that, so I'm looking forward to using that for the DAW specific things and using my novation stuff for plugin and MIDI control exclusively (the apc looks weaksauce in that department).

For now, I get around the lag and shortcomings of each controller by using my nocturn for automap universal (plugins and live MIDI) and the SL for the ableton automap (DAW stuff). This setup allows me to seamlessly implement the benefits of automap universal on a controller that is both flexibile and quick (endless rotaries and quick map change abilities with touch sensitive controls, plus programmable buttons for hold toggles and other goodies) and simultaneous control over ableton junk like transport controls on my SL (where I'm playing on the keys anyway) without having to bother with its clicky rotaries or fixed nobs. If I want to use it for live MIDI control (it does have a lot of buttons on it, and faders are good to have for live mangling) I'll be able to use it in automap universal alongside my nocturn simultaneoulsy with the new pro version coming out soon.

I feel I should also point out that the automap thing where it assigns parameters to controls that haven't already been set up by the factory or user is NOT the way to be using it. Its not going into set it up right unless its already got a custom map for that plugin, of which many are supplied by Novation. If they dont have one, I spend a little time making my own. This way everything is mapped out the way I want, over multiple pages, with all the controls I need to access quickly on every page. Then I save the map and it gets recalled every time I open that plugin from then on. I can also control the step size and behavior of the controls, the HUI lets me see exactly what I'm doing so I dont have to rely on memory or the LCD screen or a limited Live macro assignment.

The lag is there moving from automap to the Live template but I think that is more just the display updating because the sliders will work immediately while the display is catching up (this is on Automap BetaFc3 btw).

This is true, the wait period is to update the LCD. The controls are ready to rock as soon as you change the template.

Tom Void · Post by **Tom Void** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:47 am

I've totally abandonned the thought of using Auotomap creatively since v2 came out. It has not functioned with my Remote Zero SL since day one, so i've reverted to treating it as a "passive" controller which only responds to my manual mappings. Simply because I can't tolerate any chance of anything not acting as it should at a given time.

The whole HUD thing in V2 hasn't worked at all, no matter what work what work around I tried, so this one staus passive along the prospected AKAI which will render it obsolete.

As said earlier, this has ties to the demise of Betamax...

Geezus · Post by **Geezus** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:00 am

Tom Void wrote:I've totally abandonned the thought of using Auotomap creatively since v2 came out. It has not functioned with my Remote Zero SL since day one, so i've reverted to treating it as a "passive" controller which only responds to my manual mappings. Simply because I can't tolerate any chance of anything not acting as it should at a given time.

The whole HUD thing in V2 hasn't worked at all, no matter what work what work around I tried, so this one staus passive along the prospected AKAI which will render it obsolete.

As said earlier, this has ties to the demise of Betamax...

that would be true if the APC came even close to the vst plugin control that nocturns or SLs have. It doesnt. Its obviously better for DAW controls in ableton but the design and software implementation of it just doesnt compete with the flexibility and efficiency that novation stuff offers for vst plugins.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:14 pm

Seeing as how I have Kore, and Kore allows for 500 automation steps VS 128 MIDI steps in Automap Universal, it's not likely I'll get the workaround of buying another Novation product, and spending money on an upgrade to 'pro' to get full functionality out of Automap......

Sorry if this sounds bitter, I just had high hopes for Automap, as the last Novation product I had was an X-Station and that was pretty sweet.

Anyway, the faders work decently enough as a mixer, but I do wish I had just picked up the CME red monster with motorized faders instead. Might still do that. As it stand I have a great studio setup, with a Mackie Control and the Novation, but I need a good Live setup.

Geezus · Post by **Geezus** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:16 am

Machinesworking wrote:Seeing as how I have Kore, and Kore allows for 500 automation steps VS 128 MIDI steps in Automap Universal, it's not likely I'll get the workaround of buying another Novation product, and spending money on an upgrade to 'pro' to get full functionality out of Automap......

Sorry if this sounds bitter, I just had high hopes for Automap, as the last Novation product I had was an X-Station and that was pretty sweet.

Anyway, the faders work decently enough as a mixer, but I do wish I had just picked up the CME red monster with motorized faders instead. Might still do that. As it stand I have a great studio setup, with a Mackie Control and the Novation, but I need a good Live setup.

Yeah I probably wouldnt buy a nocturn just as a workaround either, love it though I may. And I was pissed about the 128 step limit for the SL but I just noticed that my nocturn has an unlimited resolution for plugins because of the rotary nobs. So I can set a min of 0 and a max of like 1000, which is pretty sweet. I'm pretty stoked about this, since it was always something that bugged me.

autmap 3 beta testers

Re: anyone tested on Nocturn yet?