hello,
i've set up an audio effect rack to split a stereo signal into left, right and mono signal. i've set it up so you can control the pan and the volumes of all 3 seperately, as well as the total volume of the side signal. it uses some techniques also found in plugins like the waves s1. it's not as sophisticated as that specific plugin, but there's enough to play with. you could use this effect rack to rebalance a mix or to apply processing to just the left, right or mono signal of a mix. i've heard of somebody who likes to compress all 3 parts of the signal indepedently to have more control over the result. btw: panning both left and right to the same position mutes the side signal. this is normal.
to use the rack you need to download the voxengo msed plugin, which is freeware. it should be somewhere at http://www.voxengo.com . the effect rack itself can be found at http://home.tiscali.nl/mos23/ableton
hope you find a use for this.
bye,
michel
howto: split stereo signal in independent right/left/mid
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Superchibisan
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BassTooth
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...makin' a rack for M/S stereo woould not be that hard.Superchibisan wrote:i've been reading a bunch into this today.
thanks for makin a rack
unfortunately, the link to the rack is 404ing.
bumped this thread cuz i intend on making one.
you'll need an audio effect rack and 3 chains with a utility plug in each and i forget what to do after that... oh yeah.. you gotta throw 2 of the three chains out of phase. and keep the third "in" phase.. ithink.
um.. when i got time i will mek one. but shouldn't be complicated at all....
m/s rack
actually, it's really easy to simply do m/s splitting with ableton effects.
insert an audio effect rack. make 2 chains. insert a utility into both. set the stereo width of 1 to 0% and the other to 200%. the 0% is the mid, the 200% is the side signal. process each of them to your heart's content.
to make a rack as in my original post, where you can control left, right and center is a bit trickier. to be honest, i lost the rack, but if anybody's interested, i might have another look into it.
ciao,
michel
insert an audio effect rack. make 2 chains. insert a utility into both. set the stereo width of 1 to 0% and the other to 200%. the 0% is the mid, the 200% is the side signal. process each of them to your heart's content.
to make a rack as in my original post, where you can control left, right and center is a bit trickier. to be honest, i lost the rack, but if anybody's interested, i might have another look into it.
ciao,
michel
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Superchibisan
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i'm not sure what you're trying to achieve, but m/s won't help you make ozone sound better. m/s is just an alternative way to encode a stereo signal. left-right is one way, mid-side is another way. you can do stuff to mid-side encoded signals that you can't do to left-right encoded signals and vice-versa. but m/s and l/r sound exactly the same!
that said, you can use ozone in a different way with m/s than you would with l/r. it won't make ozone sound better, it will get you different results.
before you use m/s, think about what you want to achieve. one thing i use it for is making sure the bass is mono. set up the rack as i've described and insert a hpf in the side chain of the rack. now filter out everything below say 200hz, and all your bass will be mono.
that said, you can use ozone in a different way with m/s than you would with l/r. it won't make ozone sound better, it will get you different results.
before you use m/s, think about what you want to achieve. one thing i use it for is making sure the bass is mono. set up the rack as i've described and insert a hpf in the side chain of the rack. now filter out everything below say 200hz, and all your bass will be mono.
Superchibisan wrote:i'll prolly end up doing that.
when using the MS method. how would i apply instances of izotope's ozone?
would it be 1 instance for each M and S or would it be one for both?
im trying to figure out how to get ozone to sound as good as it can, and i think MS might help
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Superchibisan
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please understand that m/s is not a way to enhance the stereo field. it's a way of encoding a stereo signal. i'll repeat: l/r and m/s sound exactly the same.
now what you can do to enhance the stereo field is turn up the side part of a signal. and that's how the stereo widener in the ableton utility works. i don't know for sure, but it indeed seems that ozone uses a method like this.
another way is to use a l/r encoded stereo signal and delay either right a left a tiny amount. you'll find this too in ozone, at the bottom of each band. personally, i never use this as it quickly yields results that aren't mono compatible.
hope that helps.
now what you can do to enhance the stereo field is turn up the side part of a signal. and that's how the stereo widener in the ableton utility works. i don't know for sure, but it indeed seems that ozone uses a method like this.
another way is to use a l/r encoded stereo signal and delay either right a left a tiny amount. you'll find this too in ozone, at the bottom of each band. personally, i never use this as it quickly yields results that aren't mono compatible.
hope that helps.
Superchibisan wrote:so do you think that ozone's stereo enhancer already does this? it has the ability to spread and mono each of its multibands...
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Superchibisan
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ozone itself is l/r throughout, except perhaps for the stereowidener. read the manual or else their excellent guide to mastering, which is available from their website. but anyway, the result you will get won't be typical for ozone, more typical for m/s.
and i can roughly tell what you'll get. running it on the sum will give you the same as with l/r processing. the results of using it on mid or side will depend on how stereo your signal is to start with. if it's mono, it will sound the same as when the signal was l/r and if it's stereo you'll either make the signal seem wider (by emphasizing the side or de-emphasizing the mid) or narrower (by emphasizing the mid or de-emphazing the side).
and i can roughly tell what you'll get. running it on the sum will give you the same as with l/r processing. the results of using it on mid or side will depend on how stereo your signal is to start with. if it's mono, it will sound the same as when the signal was l/r and if it's stereo you'll either make the signal seem wider (by emphasizing the side or de-emphasizing the mid) or narrower (by emphasizing the mid or de-emphazing the side).
Superchibisan wrote:i have a go at it tonight. running ozone on both the side and the mid and then also running it on the sum, let you know the results. i think ozone might already do something like m/s but maybe not. i'll see what i come up with.
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Superchibisan
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that makes me curious what you did, because slapping ozone on the sum shouldn't make a difference. could you post your rack (i have ozone, so that should work fine), or describe what's in there? and do you compare to a previous mix, or by turning the rack on and off?
on the other hand, if it works, it works. but then i'm still curious
ciao,
michel
on the other hand, if it works, it works. but then i'm still curious
ciao,
michel
Superchibisan wrote:so just did a side mid and ran the sum through ozone.
INCREDIBLE difference, clarity improved as well as punchyness.
overall volume was sounding better too!
wondering what running in parallel would do
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Superchibisan
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not much, i just made a rack, two chains, each with a Voxengo MSED in each. each instance had either the mid or the side knob at -inf.
just pulled back the mono signal by 1-3db and it cleaned up everything and allowed me to push the overall volume a bit louder.
realized that i don't need two instances of msed either. just one.
and yes, im comparing to a previous mix.
i'll post some samples later.
just pulled back the mono signal by 1-3db and it cleaned up everything and allowed me to push the overall volume a bit louder.
realized that i don't need two instances of msed either. just one.
and yes, im comparing to a previous mix.
i'll post some samples later.
ok, that explains.
first of all, if you want you can replace the msed with ableton utilities. in the mid chain you set the width at 0%, in the other you put it at 200%. or you can achieve exactly what you did by putting 1 instance of msed on the master and bringing the mid signal down 1-3 db.
what you do in your chain is change the proportion between the mid and side signal. by turning down the mid signal, the side signal gets relatively louder, making your track possibly more open. most of the energy of your signal is (hopefully) in the mid part, so turning that down also brings down the overall level. therefore you can turn the total signal up afterward.
even though you only played with the levels in a m/s configuration, it seems you've already discovered the power of it! try to eq/filter the side signal, or compress it. or put reverb on it. there's tons of stuff you can do.
first of all, if you want you can replace the msed with ableton utilities. in the mid chain you set the width at 0%, in the other you put it at 200%. or you can achieve exactly what you did by putting 1 instance of msed on the master and bringing the mid signal down 1-3 db.
what you do in your chain is change the proportion between the mid and side signal. by turning down the mid signal, the side signal gets relatively louder, making your track possibly more open. most of the energy of your signal is (hopefully) in the mid part, so turning that down also brings down the overall level. therefore you can turn the total signal up afterward.
even though you only played with the levels in a m/s configuration, it seems you've already discovered the power of it! try to eq/filter the side signal, or compress it. or put reverb on it. there's tons of stuff you can do.