why does such good music get ignored in favour of pop crap?

[knotkranky]

Business is business.

[deva]

I'm glad my favorite musicians do not get to popular. That way they stay hungry and keep making music that pleases me.

Too often success is a detriment to what I like cause that success pushes the musician towards the mainstream interest and away from mine. If someone is more mainstream, then they might see as a positive what I see as a negative.

So I don't see it as 'bad'. The pop 'crap' is there for those who want it, and there is also stuff for the 'misfits'

[djadonis206]

I'm glad my favorite musicians do not get to popular. That way they stay hungry...

[silverlulu]

yup, really good point

[3dot...]

yeah, man, those corporations are all corporationy!

[stringtapper]

What I find fascinating is how there are in fact levels of music snobbery.

Ironically, Many of those who consider themselves "music snobs" (read: like music with "thought put into it") because they don't like "pop music" (read: Top 40) are considered "simpletons" (read: haven't intensely studied all forms of western music) by modern composers in the academic institutions.

[leedsquietman]

Given that I am now 38, no longer listen to daily FM radio (I do have Sirius and have a few favourite channels, but I probably don't listen to about 90 of the 110 or so channels and I have a broad taste in music. To have this freedom of choice costs money, but I'd rather have that than listen to mundane FM with it's 25 minutes of commercials in every hour and recycled computer programmed tunes.

But in the end it popularity only determines whether the musicians you like live in a mansion in Malibu or squat in a run down apratment in the SOuth Bronx, it doesn't matter to me one iota anymore if I go to a gig in a small club instead of some mega ampitheatre, and see a band in front of a hundred people instead of 15,000 or more, the only thing I care about is that the gig is a good kickass jam. Being called a nerd or a zero or square or whatever really doesn't push my buttons anymore. Yes, it was a nuisance label in my late teens that gave me less opportunity to hit on girls or whatever, but that was 20 years ago !

And there is something that is noble to the ego about supporting the smaller, independent musicians. I have not bought anything released on a major label in 4 years and that's not because I am some anti-RIAA junkie (although I don't support them), it;s because I hear some great music online or a Sirius 'non pop hits' channel or whatever and bought it from CDBaby or Paypal from their website and in some ways, I feel more special knowing about this hidden gem than having every Tom, Dick or Harriet singing it in the elevator, at the coffee machine or the shopping mall.

[landrvr1]

I've never listened to anything but esoteric, obtuse, and challenging music since I slid down the side of my momma's leg after a painful birthing process.

So fuck off all you shallow pansies.

...

[mikemc]

The radio is a key thing, and this is interesting. Because the radio at this point is designed to geared to give you the impression that something is something it is not, and so what gets played on the radio, people think is 'something'. Those channels aren't as clear at this point (no pun intended) because of the multiplication of media outlets.

The astonishing thing is that everybody, EVERYbody, needs to feel 'validated' in their taste of music. They might hear something on cdbaby.com or garageband.com or beatport or wherever and think 'this is good', but it's hard for them to believe that they may have actually discovered something on their own! If one thinks no one else is listening to it, one is afraid to tout it. Because musical taste is such an important "identifying flag" in social circles, you are pitting yourself against the prevailing culture.

[edit] landrvr1 being the exception, of course, because nobody likes him and he doesn't give a shit

[jamester]

So what other characteristics do these "simpletons" share?
Are they all employees rather than employers?
Do they all eat fast food?
Do they all drive SUV's
Do they all have a favourite TV show?
Do none of them have a university education?
Do they make naive statements like yours?

Do you understand that the "argument" you are trying to make is flawed?

I know plenty of computer scientists, academics and lawyers who listen to those "best of" stations...and simpletons they are not.

Really?

sim·ple·ton /ˈsɪmpəltən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sim-puhl-tuhn]
–noun
an ignorant, foolish, or silly person.
[Origin: 1640–50; simple + -ton]

Let's not get too tied up in semantics here; "forest for the trees" if you will... Truth is, "simpleton" just happened to be the word in my head at the moment of typing. My point remains the same.

If it comes off as elitist than so be it, I don't care. Society is comprised mostly of selfish, bumbling idiots who cannot be bothered to take the time to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions, whether it be about art, politics, or whatever. Not everybody, just most.

[jamester]

The astonishing thing is that everybody, EVERYbody, needs to feel 'validated' in their taste of music. They might hear something on cdbaby.com or garageband.com or beatport or wherever and think 'this is good', but it's hard for them to believe that they may have actually discovered something on their own! If one thinks no one else is listening to it, one is afraid to tout it. Because musical taste is such an important "identifying flag" in social circles, you are pitting yourself against the prevailing culture.

Excellent point.

As I said earlier, I think this does diminish with age (or at least should). It's one thing when you're in high school and cliques are very much defined by common interests in musical genres and their marketed lifestyles. But for a man/woman in their thirties to have the same concerns of "fitting in" based on what a larger group deems acceptable or cool is ridiculous.

I posit that by the time of "adulthood" one should have gathered the necessary tools/insights/whatever in order to draw their own conclusions about quality and taste. But few do, percentage-wise; most will choose the path of least resistance and just "buy in" (literally) to whatever mass-marketed, safe, easily digested pap is given to them. (This forum is quite biased, as it is comprised of people interested in making their own music and nurturing/expressing their artistic talents; a small cross-section of society at large.)

I was talking to a couple friends recently about how I thought Max Brooks' zombie book World War Z was such a trite, predictabel, cliche piece of shit that I couldn't even finish it. They said it was great, they really liked it; one of them said, "c'mon it's a zombie book for crying out loud - it doesn't have to be good". This pissed me off! I countered, yes it does - art should be good, the subject matter has nothing to do with it. For some of us, "quality" is important in life. For most of us good enough will do, and it doesn't even have to be that good.

Most people don't even care enough to be critical, or else haven't bothered to develop the abilities to discern quality in the first place.

I do agree with those who've said pop doesn't have to equal crap. That's absolutely right, but nowadays most pop is, unfortunately. Again, it's not the subject matter or style, it's the quality. People love crap, they gobble it up in almost every aspect of life.

[gjm]

So what other characteristics do these "simpletons" share?
Are they all employees rather than employers?
Do they all eat fast food?
Do they all drive SUV's
Do they all have a favourite TV show?
Do none of them have a university education?
Do they make naive statements like yours?

Do you understand that the "argument" you are trying to make is flawed?

It is not flawed. I am amazed at your 'divining' skills to catagorize segments of society by which station the radio is tuned into.

Let's not get too tied up in semantics here; "forest for the trees" if you will... Truth is, "simpleton" just happened to be the word in my head at the moment of typing. My point remains the same.

No semantic issues here. Pretty clear with your example of the meaning of 'simpleton.' I took your words at face value. Perhaps you should choose more carefully so that twats like me don't get all worked up

Society is comprised mostly of selfish, bumbling idiots who cannot be bothered to take the time to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions, whether it be about art, politics, or whatever. Not everybody, just most.

Your bitter. That comment is even more stupid than than your first one.

[jamester]

It is not flawed. I am amazed at your 'divining' skills to catagorize segments of society by which station the radio is tuned into.

The crappier the station, the larger the listenership.

Society is comprised mostly of selfish, bumbling idiots who cannot be bothered to take the time to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions, whether it be about art, politics, or whatever. Not everybody, just most.

Your bitter. That comment is even more stupid than than your first one.

Damn right I'm bitter - I'm tired of being outnumbered.

If my sentiment seems stupid to you, feel lucky that the society you live in is much better than mine. Or else you give people too much credit...

[gjm]

It is not flawed. I am amazed at your 'divining' skills to catagorize segments of society by which station the radio is tuned into.

The crappier the station, the larger the listenership.

Wrong. There is more to demographic choice than what you are portraying.

Society is comprised mostly of selfish, bumbling idiots who cannot be bothered to take the time to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions, whether it be about art, politics, or whatever. Not everybody, just most.

Your bitter. That comment is even more stupid than than your first one.

Damn right I'm bitter - I'm tired of being outnumbered.

Fair enough.

If my sentiment seems stupid to you, feel lucky that the society you live in is much better than mine.

Good point.

[hambone1]

Look past your own little world and you'll see the 'big picture'. One person's good music/pop crap isn't necessarily another person's good music/pop crap.

It's all subjective. We all have different tastes and opinions. I'm glad it's that way.