CU

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Machinesworking
Posts: 11434
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:57 pm

Timur wrote:PS: How do you delete your profile here?
You got into it with somebody from Ableton via PM didn't you? There's no indication of anybody being rude to you in the last few posts of yours.

Either that or you switched DAWs, but them why would you want to delete your profile if that was the case. Oh well, even though you used windblows, we have very similar set ups, so I at least got something from your posts.

There was a guy over at OSXAudio who hand deleted his ENTIRE post history! If any other internet denizen is likely to show that level of intent and waste that amount of time on something besides music.. :wink: :twisted: 8O :lol:

heavensdaw
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Location: inbetween the inbetween

Post by heavensdaw » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:03 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
Timur wrote:PS: How do you delete your profile here?
You got into it with somebody from Ableton via PM didn't you? :wink: :twisted: 8O :lol:
Are you saying, that there are some real bad ass mofo's here? 8O :?

Hd

Machinesworking
Posts: 11434
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:12 pm

heavensdaw wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:
Timur wrote:PS: How do you delete your profile here?
You got into it with somebody from Ableton via PM didn't you? :wink: :twisted: 8O :lol:
Are you saying, that there are some real bad ass mofo's here? 8O :?

Hd
No, just saying that Timurs capacity to argue points that he's upset about makes me, TD, landcrab, and even b0unce look tame. It's quite possible that he got into technical arguments with staff at Ableton, and ended up being told that he simply wasn't technically skilled enough to come to the conclusions he comes to. This, would definitely bring him to this point.

Don't mind me, I'm playing Sherlock here, or the nosy neighbor spreading unfounded rumors, take your pick. :wink:

heavensdaw
Posts: 1825
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Location: inbetween the inbetween

Post by heavensdaw » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:20 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
heavensdaw wrote:
Machinesworking wrote: You got into it with somebody from Ableton via PM didn't you? :wink: :twisted: 8O :lol:
Are you saying, that there are some real bad ass mofo's here? 8O :?

Hd
No, just saying that Timurs capacity to argue points that he's upset about makes me, TD, landcrab, and even b0unce look tame. It's quite possible that he got into technical arguments with staff at Ableton, and ended up being told that he simply wasn't technically skilled enough to come to the conclusions he comes to. This, would definitely bring him to this point.

Don't mind me, I'm playing Sherlock here, or the nosy neighbor spreading unfounded rumors, take your pick. :wink:
K Shirlock... Play away.. :D If you DO dig up some gory details... Please tell!

Hd

Timur
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:55 am

Post by Timur » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:50 pm

Machinesworking wrote:It's quite possible that he got into technical arguments with staff at Ableton, and ended up being told that he simply wasn't technically skilled enough to come to the conclusions he comes to. This, would definitely bring him to this point.
Don't worry, I have been told just that several months ago by Amaury already without leaving. Also Ableton support repeatedly argues with me in a style that leaves little interpretation than them seeing me as technically inapt (just this week I was told again by Support that Midi is a serial protocol :roll:). But yes, communication with Ableton representatives via the Forum was far from productive, at least not more than using Email contact. So using the Forum as contact platform with developers and people behind the product is not a viable option and thus one reason less to stay around here. Using Email and phone will at least save me from publically being accused to be criminally offending Ableton.

Also I am still using Live, both because I am forced to (my collaboration partner uses it exclusive with only recent trying of Logic) and because there simply is no competitive product offering unlinear workflow like Session View (please correct me if I am wrong and point me to possible competition). Ableton Live is a good product, but Ableton's Quality Assurance and Support are leaving something to be desired.

I am still trying to convince Ableton Support that I am neither making things up nor being too inept to setup my system/Live properly via Email. My experience with Support and QA has lead me to believe that they are either lacking manpower, will or ability to handle difficult technical challenges with their product that go further than the usual "how to setup Live for use with ASIO" mojo. That would be far less of a problem if they didn't pretent like they could and would handle these things like a fully professional company. Seemingly Ableton is still a little rat-shop, but on the facade they pretend to be big business. I'd prefer them to be frank about their status and abilities instead of trying to look like something they are not (yet).

All that aside, my personal reason to leave this Forum is that it has proven to lack alot of what makes it an interesting and worthwhile stay. Furthermore many of the posts are in general so downright insulting and of such spiteful and disgusting quality that I refuse to further spend my time and energy into this. This is not a place of adult people and experts in their field, but ... (make up your own mind of what to fill in there). I'm glad to have found links to the Covert Operators and Pitch Black's setup videos here. That's something.

And I said what about "Breakfast at Tiffany's?
She said, "I think I remember the film,
And as I recall, I think, we both kinda liked it."
And I said, "Well, that's the one thing we've got."

heavensdaw
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Location: inbetween the inbetween

Post by heavensdaw » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:03 pm

Timur wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:It's quite possible that he got into technical arguments with staff at Ableton, and ended up being told that he simply wasn't technically skilled enough to come to the conclusions he comes to. This, would definitely bring him to this point.
Don't worry, I have been told just that several months ago by Amaury already without leaving. Also Ableton support repeatedly argues with me in a style that leaves little interpretation than them seeing me as technically inapt (just this week I was told again by Support that Midi is a serial protocol :roll:). But yes, communication with Ableton representatives via the Forum was far from productive, at least not more than using Email contact. So using the Forum as contact platform with developers and people behind the product is not a viable option and thus one reason less to stay around here. Using Email and phone will at least save me from publically being accused to be criminally offending Ableton.

Also I am still using Live, both because I am forced to (my collaboration partner uses it exclusive with only recent trying of Logic) and because there simply is no competitive product offering unlinear workflow like Session View (please correct me if I am wrong and point me to possible competition). Ableton Live is a good product, but Ableton's Quality Assurance and Support are leaving something to be desired.

I am still trying to convince Ableton Support that I am neither making things up nor being too inept to setup my system/Live properly via Email. My experience with Support and QA has lead me to thinking that they are either lacking manpower, will or ability to handle difficult technical challenges with their product that go further than the usual "how to setup Live for use with ASIO" mojo. That would be far less of a problem if they didn't pretent like they could and would handle these things like a fully professional company. Seemingly Ableton is still a little rat-shop, but on the facade they pretend to be big business. I'd prefer them to be frank about their status and abilities instead of trying to look like something they are not (yet).

All that aside, my personal reason to leave this Forum is that it has proven to lack alot of what makes it an interesting and worthwhile stay. Furthermore many of the posts are in general so downright insulting and of such spiteful and disgusting quality that I refuse to further spend my time and energy into this. This is not a place of adult people and experts in their field, but ... (make up your own mind of what to fill in there). I'm glad to have found links to the Covert Operators and Pitch Black's setup videos here. That's something.

And I said what about "Breakfast at Tiffany's?
She said, "I think I remember the film,
And as I recall, I think, we both kinda liked it."
And I said, "Well, that's the one thing we've got."
I feel you dude... But don't run out on us.... We gotta stand together.. not runaway... No? Cause that way we ALL lose.... But I do hear yer... Toughen up.. It's an internet forum.. nothing more... And there are a load of real cool gezzers here.. real cool guys... Don't let the fuckwits fuck wit yer! Now go get a nice cuppa tea and CALM down..

Peace

Hd

Tone Deft
Posts: 24152
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:11 pm

Timur wrote:Ableton support repeatedly argues with me in a style that leaves little interpretation than them seeing me as technically inapt (just this week I was told again by Support that Midi is a serial protocol :roll:).
lmfao, midi is most definitely a serial protocol, or are you picking some fine point? you think it's a parallel protocol? omfg classic FAIL.

Timur you're a great personality but...


MW - you're really freaking me out Mr Holmes.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

Timur
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:55 am

Post by Timur » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:16 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
Timur wrote:Ableton support repeatedly argues with me in a style that leaves little interpretation than them seeing me as technically inapt (just this week I was told again by Support that Midi is a serial protocol :roll:).
lmfao, midi is most definitely a serial protocol, or are you picking some fine point? you think it's a parallel protocol? omfg classic FAIL.

Timur you're a great personality but...


MW - you're really freaking me out Mr Holmes.
You misunderstood me. My point was that I do know and understand the serial nature of Midi when I am talking about things like bandwidth and "concurrent" Midi notes and have proven to understand that in earlier mails/posts. So when Ableton Support keeps telling me "the obvious" they either have not been reading my mails/posts attentively or the people I am talking to do not understand the concepts of protocols themself while trying to hide that by treating me like an inept. Same is true for other points of discussion.

By the way, this discussion proves why I need my account to be deleted.

heavensdaw
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Location: inbetween the inbetween

Post by heavensdaw » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:22 pm

Timur wrote: By the way, this discussion proves why I need my account to be deleted.

8O :?:

Hd

abort
Posts: 1501
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Location: Rockford, IL

Post by abort » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:32 pm

Bump, its starting to get really nasty around here!? WD these people come from..4 posts and there they are posting stupid shit all over the place. WTF is going on around here?

Timur might have the right idea

Nogi
Posts: 480
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:18 am
Location: C@L

Post by Nogi » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:41 pm

Timur wrote: Furthermore many of the posts are in general so downright insulting and of such spiteful and disgusting quality that I refuse to further spend my time and energy into this. This is not a place of adult people and experts in their field, but ...
Image

Mmmm... irony.

Tone Deft
Posts: 24152
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:41 pm

Timur wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:
Timur wrote:Ableton support repeatedly argues with me in a style that leaves little interpretation than them seeing me as technically inapt (just this week I was told again by Support that Midi is a serial protocol :roll:).
lmfao, midi is most definitely a serial protocol, or are you picking some fine point? you think it's a parallel protocol? omfg classic FAIL.

Timur you're a great personality but...


MW - you're really freaking me out Mr Holmes.
You misunderstood me. My point was that I do know and understand the serial nature of Midi when I am talking about things like bandwidth and "concurrent" Midi notes and have proven to understand that in earlier mails/posts. So when Ableton Support keeps telling me "the obvious" they either have not been reading my mails/posts attentively or the people I am talking to do not understand the concepts of protocols themself. Same is true for other points of discussion.
there are two sides to a misunderstanding. bad writing and bad reading.

I think I'm reading into this that you feel they're being pedantic, telling you the same basics over and over again, stuff you know.

tech support is only there to bridge the gap from user to developer, don't argue, they want to hear from you. sometimes you have to shut up and listen, sometimes you're wrong and you might not know it, it's called communication, ears and mouths (fingers and eyes.)


[rant mode]
This is not a place of adult people and experts in their field
:roll: FUCK YOU. there's your huge ego talking right there. you don't know shit outside OSes which you seem to know well (I can't gauge that, it's not my field, boring stuff.) you're a total n00b when it comes to audio, I can tell you're learning but omfg check your ego. I could name 20 forum members who are incredible in the audio field, you would not even be considered in my thinking. I'd bet even when it comes to OSes there are people here who could pwn you. despite what your mom says you are not special.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

Timur
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:55 am

Post by Timur » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:59 pm

Tone Deft wrote:I think I'm reading into this that you feel they're being pedantic, telling you the same basics over and over again, stuff you know.
Imagine it like this: I'm talking "carburator", "oil pump" and "anti-lock braking system" while they keep on talking "no, you first need to open the door and start the engine before you can start driving".
tech support is only there to bridge the gap from user to developer, don't argue, they want to hear from you. sometimes you have to shut up and listen, sometimes you're wrong and you might not know it, it's called communication, ears and mouths (fingers and eyes.)
Yes, that last sentence is exactly what Ableton tech support needs to learn. Thanks you.

About my ego, it's strong and stable and overall well balanced between megalomania and humility. You are right about my OS knowledge, you are wrong about my Audio knowledge, and you either lack social intelligence or voluntarily chose to hide it in many posts (like I sometimes do myself to save me the energy of going all the way trough the political correcness path). Whatever, you don't have to deal with me anymore as much as I don't have to deal with [rant mode]s anymore. In the end we are all happy and once this thread comes to an end we will live happily ever after. :D

Tone Deft
Posts: 24152
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:16 pm

I have a low tolerance for bullshit because when you work with professionals you know it or you say you don't but you don't even try to bullshit, that's worse than a wrong answer. this is an audio forum, bullshit politics, bullshit god, bullshit about the size of TITBAG's cock, don't bullshit about audio, which you do all the time because you're learning. now you're fronting like you're too good for this forum.
:roll:
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

Poster
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Location: Amsterdam

Post by Poster » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:33 pm

Timur wrote:But yes, communication with Ableton representatives via the Forum was far from productive, at least not more than using Email contact. So using the Forum as contact platform with developers and people behind the product is not a viable option and thus one reason less to stay around here. Using Email and phone will at least save me from publically being accused to be criminally offending Ableton.
don't forget YOU were the one dragging it on to the forum with your drama posts..
you were the one to make it public and forced Ableton to respond on the forum..
you know as well that they can't go that deep all in the open on a forum..

remember those empty threats when you were claiming a free copy for all the work you had done?
i.m.ho. you were not a serious discussion partner from that point on..

Timur wrote:I am still trying to convince Ableton Support that I am neither making things up nor being too inept to setup my system/Live properly via Email. My experience with Support and QA has lead me to believe that they are either lacking manpower, will or ability to handle difficult technical challenges with their product that go further than the usual "how to setup Live for use with ASIO" mojo. That would be far less of a problem if they didn't pretent like they could and would handle these things like a fully professional company. Seemingly Ableton is still a little rat-shop, but on the facade they pretend to be big business. I'd prefer them to be frank about their status and abilities instead of trying to look like something they are not (yet).
pffffftt.. keep on petting yourself on the back mate.. hilarious and sad at the same time..

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