YIKES!!!! Live 7 Orchestral library is $800?

dfusion · Post by **dfusion** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:02 am

I noticed that my Live 7 Suite upgrade price is $399 US dollars, which gives me Tension, Analog, Electric, EIC2, Drum Machines, and Session Drums. I already own Live 6, EIC, Sampler, Operator.

....but....

If I want to add the Orchestral library it's another $800 for the bundle!!!!!! (Brass, Percussion, Strings, Woodwinds). I'm sure this library is an OEM from Sonivox or Vienna, and not something Ableton has done on their own. $800 seems way too steep! Kontakt 3 is less than half the price and includes a huge Vienna library plus many other libraries of sounds (33GB total of really useful content).

Sorry for bitching..but I feel sorry for anyone just getting into Live with version 7. The Ableton Suite (everything except Orchestral) is $1000 and the orchestral bundle adds another $800..which totals $1,800 for the "everyting bundle" of Live!!!!!! OUCH!!!!!!

I'm not saying Live should be cheap or compare to Apple's Logic 8 pricing, because I'm sure Ableton figured all this out before Apple ever announced Logic 8 for $499, but certainly they are shooting themselves in the foot at this point!!!!!!!

Personally, I think Live 7 (barebones) + Komplete 5 ($999) makes a better deal.

biroe · Post by **biroe** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:22 am

yeah I was a little put off by that price aswell.

I've also found that it will be pretty cheap (for what I'm getting) for me to upgrade to the suite... but the Orchestral library is way to much for me to even consider it.

ah well... I'll make do with EIC2 and maybe I'll look in to kontakt when I have a bit more cash.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:31 am

this was done purely as a marketing strategy to secure the affiliation of Mr Hans Zimmer.

It is well known that Hans will not use an orchestral library unless it is at least 4GB per velocity layer / sample and costs at least $750.

Mr Zimmer's agent declined to a full interview only saying "Hans just can't play with $799 strings".

v00d00ppl · Post by **v00d00ppl** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:02 am

yea that price is ridiculous....has anyone been able to successfully crossgrade from ableton sampler to nitive instruments kontakt 3?

scientist · Post by **scientist** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:00 am

a few things:
1. virtually no symphonic orchestrators use live (check the poll at northernsounds.com). who is this aimed at exactly? it seems that the attention to detail that the $800 buys you is for details that 99% of live users won't use or need.
2. if you're expected to pay $800 for a sample set the demos have to sound shit hot. and the posted demos (or maybe it is the samples themselves) are not very good. ffs, there are poorly articulated notes and ambient artifacts (did someone bump their music stand?) in the viola ensemble demo. and are the demos dry? if so imo that room noise is going to sound awful after you've assembled a full orchestra and given it your own reverb. dear ableton: if you want, give me a copy of the orchestra library and i'll bust out some much more convincing demos.
3. there're no comprehensive details. articulations? velocity layers? if its a $200 library then you get what you get. but people who are willing to invest $800 in a sample library really want to know the details.
4. look closely and you'll notice a good portion of the samples are already included in the eic.

my guess is this is actually a decent sample set, i just think they're shooting for market that doesn't exist.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:05 am

scientist wrote: give me a copy of the orchestra library and i'll bust out some much more convincing demos..

im totally into the idea of them gettin ur help, but if ur good at string programming maybe post an example or two to impress them and u never know...

scientist · Post by **scientist** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:16 am

i've got a couple on my site, but upon listening to them they aren't too impressive...

in one the audio quality is horrible (thanks to the final version the agency sent me):
http://www.strongforthefuture.com/spots/selfridges.mov
actually this one is decent, just doesn't show off anything particularly complicated:
http://strongforthefuture.com/spots/dis ... ggoods.mov

oh well. i suppose i could dig something up i did with GPO and/or orkester and polish it off, but the irony of it all would just be too much (demo'ing to make demo's with something other than what the demo'ing would be for...yipes).

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:54 pm

scientist wrote:my guess is this is actually a decent sample set, i just think they're shooting for market that doesn't exist.

My guess is through universities. The possibly inflated price will leave a huge headroom for bargaining on volume liscenses, meanwhile professionals and professional environments will not bat an eyelash if they feel that the live workflow is is enough of a benefit. The good news is that if the articulations are or are not there, the professionals and educators paying for this will eventually demand it, and this will lead to new or further refined technologies for the wider user-base later on.

This could be the start of a very expensive trend though. Further dynamic sound devices could be sold as virtual instruments and sold as expensive products leaving ableton with potentially limited manpower for the main app. Of course these instruments are done by 3rd parties... Whaterver. I just want to see the C74 collaboration stuff. My bet is next summer or fall, after MAX 5 has made it through a few rounds.

v00d00ppl · Post by **v00d00ppl** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:13 am

hey, scientist...thanks for breaking it down like that with your commentary.......i have made my mind........kontakt 3 it is. unless the abe's can make a demo that will make you go bananas b a a anas..........i'm sticking with kontakt 3.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:54 am

v00d00ppl wrote:hey, scientist...thanks for breaking it down like that with your commentary.......i have made my mind........kontakt 3 it is. unless the abe's can make a demo that will make you go bananas b a a anas..........i'm sticking with kontakt 3.

I use Sampler more for fucking up sounds than a sampler, I use SampleTank for that and their libraries go on sale for cheap. use what works for you, my $0.02.

IMO get a Puremagnetik subscription and keep your eyes on CovOps and TrackTeamAudio.

Orchestral sounds??? yeah, I wish I could finally find a good oboe instrument. why Abes, why?

9pod9 · Post by **9pod9** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:24 pm

Where did you see that the orchestral library will cost $800?

udp · Post by **udp** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:37 pm

v00d00ppl wrote:hey, scientist...thanks for breaking it down like that with your commentary.......i have made my mind........kontakt 3 it is. unless the abe's can make a demo that will make you go bananas b a a anas..........i'm sticking with kontakt 3.

Don't overlook Motu Symphonic instrument. It's sounds are quite usable out of the box. I use it more than EIC, but I use both.

Here's an example with Motu Symphonic instrument for the strings and True Pianos for the piano, of course written in Live 7..http://www.udpmusic.fastmail.fm/public/ ... 20Copy.mp3

slirak · Post by **slirak** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:45 pm

9pod9 wrote:Where did you see that the orchestral library will cost $800?

+1

Haven't seen any price quoted anywhere?

9pod9 · Post by **9pod9** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:29 pm

9pod9 wrote:Where did you see that the orchestral library will cost $800?

I'll answer my own question.

I just found a press release posted in October on Future Music: http://futuremusic.com/blog/?p=1975.

The first round of beta testing for Ableton Live 7 is starting today with a limited participant group. A public beta version of these products will be available soon. Live 7 will be officially released before the holidays. Live 7 will cost: Download version: $499 / €419, Boxed version, includes the Essential Instrument Collection 2 (EIC 2): $599 / €499. New Ableton Instruments — Tension: €129 / $159; Electric: €129 / $159; Analog: €129 / $159; Essential Instrument Collection 2: €99 / $119 (for owners of EIC 1, a free upgrade to EIC 2 is included with the boxed upgrades to Ableton Live 7 and Ableton Suite); Session Drums: €149 / $179; Drum Machines: €69 / $79; Orchestral Strings: €209 / $249; Orchestral Brass: €209 / $249; Orchestral Woodwinds: €209 / $249; Orchestral Percussion: €169 / $199; Orchestral Bundle (Orchestral Strings + Brass + Woodwinds + Percussion): €669 / $799.

It sounds like they'd originally intended to release the Orchestral Bundle at the same time as Live 7.

slirak · Post by **slirak** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:01 am

9pod9 wrote:
9pod9 wrote:Where did you see that the orchestral library will cost $800?
I'll answer my own question.
---SNIP---
Orchestral Strings: €209 / $249; Orchestral Brass: €209 / $249; Orchestral Woodwinds: €209 / $249; Orchestral Percussion: €169 / $199; Orchestral Bundle (Orchestral Strings + Brass + Woodwinds + Percussion): €669 / $799.

D**m! As someone who own all current Ableton instruments and sample libraries, as well as a number of third party offerings, I find Ableton's instruments to range from the 'significantly overpriced' to 'waaaaaay overpriced'.

In fact, I would never have paid for any of them if it wasn't for the huge discount on the basic L6 -> full boxed L7 suite upgrade.

With the orchestral libraries however, if the quoted prices turn out to be correct and the libraries are what they seem (merely full versions of various EIC2 sample sets) it seems that Ableton now transcends even the 'ridiculously overpriced' realm and enter a completely new and highly distorted dimension where no known law of economics apply... As others have noted, there actually is competition out there and unless Ableton's orchestral libraries are really something else, they will have NOTHING to offer.

I mean, sure, stuff like Analogue or Operator may be lame even compared to freeware offerings, but they do have a unique selling point in their tight integration with Live's neat envelope automation etc. But a sample library whose main selling point isn't tweakability but rather realism?? No way José!

@$%&! Have them Ableton folks lost it completely?? I sure hope those quoted prices are incorrect!

/Jonas