Elastic Audio in ProTools!

madcre8r · Post by **madcre8r** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:09 pm

it would indeed be nice if ableton took this as a cue to step up the clip warping capabilites. seems like digidesign raised the bar a bit.

perhaps we can see this is 7.1?

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:27 pm

madcre8r wrote:it would indeed be nice if ableton took this as a cue to step up the clip warping capabilites. seems like digidesign raised the bar a bit.

perhaps we can see this is 7.1?

dunno, there has been a lot of resting on laurels...

gomi · Post by **gomi** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:24 pm

Machinate wrote:
madcre8r wrote:it would indeed be nice if ableton took this as a cue to step up the clip warping capabilites. seems like digidesign raised the bar a bit.

perhaps we can see this is 7.1?
dunno, there has been a lot of resting on laurels...

apparently pt's engine will maintain phase coherency when stretching multiple
tracks..

Dan Dare · Post by **Dan Dare** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:42 am

Live for me is still a more creative music making tool. What I thought was funny in the PT 7.4 demo was using Elastic Audio on a multi mic session of live drums. Imagine getting all your mics in phase and balanced correctly until they sound how you want and then warping them all with elastic audio so they sound shit. At least Beat Detective method keeps things sounding sharp.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:05 pm

MrTiddles wrote:
Torkjell wrote:Elastic Audio in ProTools

What now Ableton Live?
I still don't think Ableton have anything to worry about. Live is a very creative tool, could you imagine trying to do a live PA with Pro Tools?! I love my little Pro Tools rig, but for creativity there's still nothing to top Live.

Yep, that's the truth. One of the things that is so impressive about live is how it can be customized to be your own instrument with racks and control mapping, etc.. lemme know when any other software is doing that stuff and i'll consider a switch.

.lm.

gomi · Post by **gomi** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:18 pm

Dan Dare wrote:Live for me is still a more creative music making tool. What I thought was funny in the PT 7.4 demo was using Elastic Audio on a multi mic session of live drums. Imagine getting all your mics in phase and balanced correctly until they sound how you want and then warping them all with elastic audio so they sound shit. At least Beat Detective method keeps things sounding sharp.

no, see, pt will maintain phase coherency... where as the same feature in live
does not ( as far as i can tell )

Dan Dare · Post by **Dan Dare** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:35 am

I realize this but doesn't all Warping or Elastic introduce artifacts that will add a bit of a smear to your transients and subtract from your hard work in recording them so accurately in the first place. I was trying to say that at least with slicing techniques you maintain phase and the transients without the affect that elastic etc places on the audio.

I use warping etc to get a quick groove going with loops. To be honest I have never tried to warp a whole session of recorded drums so maybe it will sound fine, I guess I am just skeptical of the results.

lesterdiamond · Post by **lesterdiamond** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:56 pm

wow!

looks nice, when?

There isn't much late 2007 left!

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:54 pm

i agree -- if you're really trying to get great sounding mic'd drums or guitar or vox -- the sort of stuff people often use PT to record -- just record it at the right tempo. makes sense to change tempo of elements in (e.g.) dance track where artifacts may add charm, etc. but that's generally not the case where you're recording something live, tweaking mics and eq and compression and etc.

gomi · Post by **gomi** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:40 pm

Dan Dare wrote:I realize this but doesn't all Warping or Elastic introduce artifacts that will add a bit of a smear to your transients and subtract from your hard work in recording them so accurately in the first place. I was trying to say that at least with slicing techniques you maintain phase and the transients without the affect that elastic etc places on the audio.

I use warping etc to get a quick groove going with loops. To be honest I have never tried to warp a whole session of recorded drums so maybe it will sound fine, I guess I am just skeptical of the results.

i'll let you know, we will be getting it in our theatre when it is released.

Komplex · Post by **Komplex** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:17 am

you guys are acting like as if ableton didn't sell their elastic audio technology to digidesign...

even the term elastic audio was coined by the abletrons...

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:21 am

Komplex wrote:you guys are acting like as if ableton didn't sell their elastic audio technology to digidesign...

even the term elastic audio was coined by the abletrons...

Why you kids! I remember when Ableton was called... "Roland"!

"VariPhrase is the first technology that can liberate a static audio recording, allowing it to be controlled dynamically via MIDI. VariPhrase products have revolutionary capability to make audio “elastic.” The secret to elastic audio is the independent control of pitch, time, and formant. This allows audio to be controlled with realtime MIDI messages in a completely non-destructive environment Even more amazing is that all of this can be done without changing the sound quality of the original recording. That’s the power of VariPhrase."

trip_out · Post by **trip_out** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:46 am

Komplex wrote:you guys are acting like as if ableton didn't sell their elastic audio technology to digidesign...

even the term elastic audio was coined by the abletrons...

And you are acting as if ableton didn't buy their elastic audio technology from zplane...

Stephen Bond · Post by **Stephen Bond** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:04 pm

Well I am a Pro Tools user first and foremost but I have been using Live since V2 and like it a lot with its ease of use, creative features and low CPU stress.

My biggest problem with Live has been the sound quality of the warping. Even since 'complex' mode arrived I have not been greatly impressed. For more important stretching I would revert to Pro Tools and use a plugin such as SoundToys Speed or the new Digidesign compress/expand plug.

Second problem is that the auto warp transient detection is poor in V5. I don't know if things have improved in V6 or 7 but I hope so! Even in the beta testing of V5 I highlighted the problem of most warp markers being set anywhere around 10 or 20 ms late. Tis unfortunately did not improve in the subsequent release of V5.

When PT 7.4 drops I can see myself doing many of the things I used Live for in Pro Tools. Even from the video you can hear the quality of the stretching is certainly 'world class' and the transient markers are auto set in perfect position.

I am all for bells and whistles but I need the basic functions to be rock solid and sound great too. Digi has been catching up in areas of creativity and supplied extras and with this release it puts itself at the head of the game in the warping arena.

mbenigni · Post by **mbenigni** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:13 pm

session view??

In two words, he hits the nail on the head. Lots of apps have time-stretch/pitch-shift technology, in addition to acid-style (indeed that sounds retro at this point) looping. But Live is still unique by virtue of its workflow, and session view is at the heart of that. I'm not sure why there aren't more companies trying to compete here. The closest thing I've seen is Project 5, and that was a mess last time I checked - admittedly a couple of versions back.

Elastic Audio in ProTools!

Re: Elastic Audio in ProTools!