I'm completely self tought. It is a good way to develope your skills, because you can create your own working methods and discover ways that are unique to you. I think it is worth while to learn an instrument (piano, guitar etc), this will help in understanding notes and thier relationship with each other. Persistence, that is also a key...never give up, it takes years.
I hope this helps.
How did you learn to produce?
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Broken Chip
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:44 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
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Paul Nolan
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:45 pm
im pretty much self taught up until the last year when i decided that i wanted to know more than i felt i could reasonably learn ploughing the lone furrow...now at SAE doing theit Audio Engineering Diploma and finish in december, with an allround intimite knowledge of not just logic, plugins etc, but also alot of studio experience, working with artists, bands, various types and standards of studios, from a smaller project studio to large format studios with never desks etc, not to mention the other fun stuff like post pro in 5.1 surround, and getting to grips on a grand scale with logic and pro tools
and the theories behind it all too!
its amazing how much this course has put things into perspective for me, its taught me the importance of mixing and mastering, but also getting it right from source to make your life easier. its expedited my learning process and also my workflow and creative processes 200% at least!
if you're self taught to a point with a thirst for knowledge i dont think you could go far wrong doing this course, or a course of this type, if you have the money and time to dedicate yourself to it...but i cant wait to finish so i can get some REAL time to play about and find my own sound, once i've learned all the rules (so i can i break them!)
and the theories behind it all too!
its amazing how much this course has put things into perspective for me, its taught me the importance of mixing and mastering, but also getting it right from source to make your life easier. its expedited my learning process and also my workflow and creative processes 200% at least!
if you're self taught to a point with a thirst for knowledge i dont think you could go far wrong doing this course, or a course of this type, if you have the money and time to dedicate yourself to it...but i cant wait to finish so i can get some REAL time to play about and find my own sound, once i've learned all the rules (so i can i break them!)
I did the self-taught approach and over the past 15 years, I basically acquired a lot of tips and tricks. A couple of years ago, I took a "you-pay" internship, where instead of course-work, I paid to be in an internship to get hands on experience. In fact, it was a bit of a rip off, because I didn't really get that stellar career in a recording studio that they promised...but then again, it was about 1/10 of the Full Sail price.
Bottom line, if you want to be an engineer, a course is pretty essential - there's a lot to lean about working in a studio, and you always start at the bottom and work your way up.
If you want to be a producer, you might do better using software, reading a lot of SOS and other books, and learning about how to bring your creativity to the sound.
Bottom line, if you want to be an engineer, a course is pretty essential - there's a lot to lean about working in a studio, and you always start at the bottom and work your way up.
If you want to be a producer, you might do better using software, reading a lot of SOS and other books, and learning about how to bring your creativity to the sound.
i learned by being in a band and paying to make records. and hating every penny lost to get something that wasn't close.
i said fuck it, and bought gear instead, and went for it.
now i make my living mixing. fuck full sail, etc.
buy a studio for the same price.
everything you need to learn is on the internet, if you learn by example.
or you can read it.
one thing i believe, it's like any form of art or musicianship...
if you don't get it naturally, you never will.
i learned that trying to teach folks (for free).
btw, i never intended on becoming an engineer.
i said fuck it, and bought gear instead, and went for it.
now i make my living mixing. fuck full sail, etc.
buy a studio for the same price.
everything you need to learn is on the internet, if you learn by example.
or you can read it.
one thing i believe, it's like any form of art or musicianship...
if you don't get it naturally, you never will.
i learned that trying to teach folks (for free).
btw, i never intended on becoming an engineer.
2 words
Piano Lessions.
If you've got little musical instrument experience then you'll need
something like this to get the mechanics of how to properly position your
hands on a keyboard (so you can move in both directions without running
out of fingers)
Other then that it's a language, you probably know well enough, but don't
know how to speak on keys. You can understand what someone is saying
but haven't learnt how to talk back...... Knowing the language gives you a
big boost but still it will take some brain retraining to be able to speak it
fluently as well.
A bit/lot of theory really does help a great deal. Especially seeing that on
the production end you're thinking a lot more about note/chord choice and
the theory allows you to get the idea of where you want to go down onto
paper as something that really does go where you wanted.
-Ben
Piano Lessions.
If you've got little musical instrument experience then you'll need
something like this to get the mechanics of how to properly position your
hands on a keyboard (so you can move in both directions without running
out of fingers)
Other then that it's a language, you probably know well enough, but don't
know how to speak on keys. You can understand what someone is saying
but haven't learnt how to talk back...... Knowing the language gives you a
big boost but still it will take some brain retraining to be able to speak it
fluently as well.
A bit/lot of theory really does help a great deal. Especially seeing that on
the production end you're thinking a lot more about note/chord choice and
the theory allows you to get the idea of where you want to go down onto
paper as something that really does go where you wanted.
-Ben
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leedsquietman
- Posts: 6659
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:56 am
- Location: greater toronto area
I personally take greater satisfaction at laying down my own keyboards and guitar parts etc and programming or at least modifying beats for myself. I do use samples too but have never produced any track purely from other people's samples, I'm a meglomaniac control freak who needs to say 'this part was MINE'
But ... it's not essential, especially in the field of hip-hop. P. Diddy (puff daddy) never played a note on any instrument in his life but he knew how to work a sampler and had a mind for arrangement. As a producer, the main thing is knowing how you want something to sound in your head and then either affect those ideas and changes in your production software or multitrack machine etc for yourself, or get others to do it for you if you're rich enough ! Your experience as a DJ knows that you understand about beats, transitions and what sounds good relevant to your audience which is a big help.
But ... it's not essential, especially in the field of hip-hop. P. Diddy (puff daddy) never played a note on any instrument in his life but he knew how to work a sampler and had a mind for arrangement. As a producer, the main thing is knowing how you want something to sound in your head and then either affect those ideas and changes in your production software or multitrack machine etc for yourself, or get others to do it for you if you're rich enough ! Your experience as a DJ knows that you understand about beats, transitions and what sounds good relevant to your audience which is a big help.
just go for some quick tracky material at first and focus on finishing pieces in a timely manner.
I remember one approach I took to starting to produce dance tracks was to take a track from my record box and build a track around the outtro of that track - so it is tailored to mixing out of that track.
the actual music/melodic element of the track is usually the easy part - just a matter of tweaking and jamming - then doing some overdub automation passes.
I remember one approach I took to starting to produce dance tracks was to take a track from my record box and build a track around the outtro of that track - so it is tailored to mixing out of that track.
the actual music/melodic element of the track is usually the easy part - just a matter of tweaking and jamming - then doing some overdub automation passes.
to make it short, i started during my skool days to work in my uncles PA / event technik company learning by doing, untill he started to teach me propperly.
then moving to england for a few years, there a mentor, which name i don't want to mention took me under his wings, he worked previously with people like roger waters together during the same time i did some live work for robby williams, neil diamond, etc.
then started to work for several electronic projects only and now doing again both electronic stuff and newcomer bands, production, mixing, etc... besides writing my own stuff for my own [coming up] and a friends label.
and besides that i DJ since over 15 years.
that is only a very rough and short rundown, as i touched a bit of all sorts of audio related stuff, over the years.
then moving to england for a few years, there a mentor, which name i don't want to mention took me under his wings, he worked previously with people like roger waters together during the same time i did some live work for robby williams, neil diamond, etc.
then started to work for several electronic projects only and now doing again both electronic stuff and newcomer bands, production, mixing, etc... besides writing my own stuff for my own [coming up] and a friends label.
and besides that i DJ since over 15 years.
that is only a very rough and short rundown, as i touched a bit of all sorts of audio related stuff, over the years.
*** 
GAFM ***
GAFM ***method
playing around
filtering and sorting
playing around
...
rule
don´t think too much, let yourself drift, surprise yourself.
secret
reason why i´m bored by 99% of the music out there is that they are strictly formulaic. the hardest thing is to avoid that as far as possible. you are caught by the limitations of consumption reception far enough. be creative, be experimental. and when you want some money or resonance (which both is good) - put all your best experiments into "a real song", whose structure is always like this popular act naturally installed for reproduction purpose: let it grow, let it go, let it crash, let it fade.
good melodies maybe come best per voice. sing when you feel you want to (despair and sadness, the will and search for light are nice inspirations), and play a simple melody with a naked piano for instance (or a preset that seems to fit right now). so you catch soul. afterwards tweak it, transform it - and (besides punkrock) never expect wonders to be built in a second. but every piece has at least one centre, which is coming by intuition in a special moment. the song is built around, like a ceremony contributed to just that little single moment in time.
playing around
filtering and sorting
playing around
...
rule
don´t think too much, let yourself drift, surprise yourself.
secret
reason why i´m bored by 99% of the music out there is that they are strictly formulaic. the hardest thing is to avoid that as far as possible. you are caught by the limitations of consumption reception far enough. be creative, be experimental. and when you want some money or resonance (which both is good) - put all your best experiments into "a real song", whose structure is always like this popular act naturally installed for reproduction purpose: let it grow, let it go, let it crash, let it fade.
good melodies maybe come best per voice. sing when you feel you want to (despair and sadness, the will and search for light are nice inspirations), and play a simple melody with a naked piano for instance (or a preset that seems to fit right now). so you catch soul. afterwards tweak it, transform it - and (besides punkrock) never expect wonders to be built in a second. but every piece has at least one centre, which is coming by intuition in a special moment. the song is built around, like a ceremony contributed to just that little single moment in time.
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drewbixcube
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:37 am
There is definitely a lot of good advice here, but I think the trend is that everyone goes about it a bit differently. As for me, I started out teaching myself with a Roland Mc-505 and nothing else. It was a great learning tool. Sequencing, synthesis, mixing... it has it all but of course, with only a 505, I never really made anything I felt was worth while. I'm sure someone out there could do it but I just didn't have the patience. I'll never forget my fist lesson in MIDI. I connected the 505 to my sisters digital piano and then just plugged my headphones into the 505 and I couldn't figure out for the life of me why I couldn't hear the piano in my headphones 
That was about 10 years ago though. Just recently I've started to take producing more seriously. I've spent a fair amount of money on a computer and software. I bought Pro Tools for the Digital Audio Engineering program that I am taking, and it introduced me to Live. I plan on taking the MIDI Music Production course as well. These are both offered at my local community college for a fair price when compared to Berklee, Full Sail, and the likes. What I like about school is that it's structured. For example, I'm required to take piano and music theory courses. I can only speak for myself on this matter, but when I try to learn something on my own I tend to lose focus all to easily. Being graded and having deadlines helps me to stay focused, even though I'm doing what I love.
The self taught method can work though, and many have been successful. The main thing is you don't want to go spending a whole ton of money right away. Start out with an all-in-one as someone suggested earlier and learn it inside and out then start to branch out. And most importantly, have patience.
That was about 10 years ago though. Just recently I've started to take producing more seriously. I've spent a fair amount of money on a computer and software. I bought Pro Tools for the Digital Audio Engineering program that I am taking, and it introduced me to Live. I plan on taking the MIDI Music Production course as well. These are both offered at my local community college for a fair price when compared to Berklee, Full Sail, and the likes. What I like about school is that it's structured. For example, I'm required to take piano and music theory courses. I can only speak for myself on this matter, but when I try to learn something on my own I tend to lose focus all to easily. Being graded and having deadlines helps me to stay focused, even though I'm doing what I love.
The self taught method can work though, and many have been successful. The main thing is you don't want to go spending a whole ton of money right away. Start out with an all-in-one as someone suggested earlier and learn it inside and out then start to branch out. And most importantly, have patience.
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iamnotcool
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:07 am
- Location: Southern California
Self taught. I started off DJing in 2001, when I was like 15. Eventually I got my hands on Fruityloops 3 (back when it was still Fruityloops) and just tried to replicate some of my favourite tracks at the time. From there I just started changing the tracks up a bit until I developed my own stuff. I dabbled with cubase and logic for a while, but those apps really just took the creative element away from me. After buying a trigger finger, I got a copy of Live Lite and never looked back. Ableton has reignited my creativity and allowed me to really enjoy music making. I think this year I'm going to step up and buy a hardware synth of some sort, as I finally learned how to use a synth properly last year.
15" Macbook Pro C2D, Live 6, Remote Zero SL
Click here for my tunes!
Click here for my tunes!
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leedsquietman
- Posts: 6659
- Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:56 am
- Location: greater toronto area
I learned how to produce on 4 track tape machines from Fostex and Tascam (music teacher at high school let me borrow them weekends/vacations) as far back as 1987.
Then home 4 track(s) such as the fostex x-26, then stuff like hardware fx units and compressors around 1992 on my own 4 track, got an 8 track reel to reel recorder (fostex r-8) in 1998 but only got into computer recording in 2001 when I got Cubase VST (was able to run about 5 audio tracks 16/44.1 before a system freeze!).
Learning on a 4 track was great, I learned the principals of economy, mic placement and bouncing tracks, how to EQ (for example put a tambourine with bass on a bounced track and the EQ could bring out one or the other using just the hi or lo EQ boosts) and less is more makes the modern ability to record 40 or more tracks with audio, midi, plugins etc a dream !
Then home 4 track(s) such as the fostex x-26, then stuff like hardware fx units and compressors around 1992 on my own 4 track, got an 8 track reel to reel recorder (fostex r-8) in 1998 but only got into computer recording in 2001 when I got Cubase VST (was able to run about 5 audio tracks 16/44.1 before a system freeze!).
Learning on a 4 track was great, I learned the principals of economy, mic placement and bouncing tracks, how to EQ (for example put a tambourine with bass on a bounced track and the EQ could bring out one or the other using just the hi or lo EQ boosts) and less is more makes the modern ability to record 40 or more tracks with audio, midi, plugins etc a dream !
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Spiralgroove
- Posts: 1020
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 1:37 pm
- Contact:
Taught myself out to play keys in 1998. Then saved up and picked up afew pieces of kit in 99, taught myself the ins & outs of the gear then recorded my whole first album with a combo of DAT and a roland sp808 in 00. Then in late 00, i got my first PC then picked up copy of Acid Pro. That totally rocked my world, then kept buying outboard gear then recording it to Acid. Then when Acid finally got VSTi, I started getting into softsynths. Managed to become a Reaktor wiz when version 3 came out. Umm, then in like 02-03 I got my first mac and started using Ableton live 1.5 with reason. Ableton has been rocking my sox ever since. Altho currently I only have 1 PC anymore and now I have 2 macs & tons of outboard gear.
woohoo, exciting i know...
woohoo, exciting i know...
roach- the other white meat
http://www.themenacetosobriety.com/blog/
MBP, Live Suite, and lots of nice analogue gear.
http://www.themenacetosobriety.com/blog/
MBP, Live Suite, and lots of nice analogue gear.
Well, to the extent that I have learned how to produce, I'm self-taught. You can learn a lot from just experimenting and reading forums like this one. However, I have a lot of musical training from a while before I ever started this electronic stuff, including piano, vocal, and trumpet. This has helped a lot, particularly the piano. I nth the recommendation to take piano lessons. Also my day job (not music related) has afforded me a lot of background knowledge about acoustics, which has made it easier to understand many of the concepts behind synthesis and effects (or at least, to know more or less what I'd have to figure out in order to understand the less intuitive ones).