Had enough of VSTs

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:42 pm

glu wrote:
Johnisfaster wrote:I don't quite understand "trashing" all your vst's though. I mean I have several hundred vst's on this computer but I only end up using about a dozen on a regultar basis. I found the ones that work for me and then I tend to avoid the other ones. but I don't need to trash them per say. once in a while when I am a little board and I'm looking for something a little different then I can go digging.

they do make you lazy though but only if you let them.
I agree here. So how do you organize your VSTi's, meaning the ones you use, and the ones you don't use that often

actually i don't, I'm just really fast and scrolling through the directory hehe.
maybe one day if I hear a really good way of organizing and know for sure it won't mess up my music I might put things into seperate folders according to what style of plug it is, like subtractives, fm's, reverbs, delays. does anyone know if you can move your vst's and au's into different sub folders will your songs still find them or will they be all like "cannot locate blah blah blah"

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:42 pm

djsynchro wrote:
nebulae wrote: I then went back to hardware and bought two critical synths - JP8080 and Virus-C.
They are both software synths as is for example a Nord Lead.
Software running on a bunch of DSP chips.
-->> The Virus is also available for TC Powercore & the Digidesign platform.

Yes, that is true, which was my reasoning behind going to all softsynths. Then my sound came out thin and my mixes weren't as meaty as I'd like. I then did some hard core demos...I'm not sure if it's the ADDA converters in the softsynths, or perhaps the actual recording of analog signals that adds some dirt and grime to the sound, or what, but to my ears, hardware sounds thick and full without even trying, while softsynths need a lot of help to thicken out. Even though the sound modules that are generating the sound are software, to my ears, this holds true. I won't try to convince you I'm right, I'm just telling you what I hear. A bass out of my virus will TO ME always sound fuller, thicker, and meatier than a bass coming out of a softsynth. I've also heard this might be the case with some friends who have a Virus TI - they say they'd rather use the analog outputs instead of the USB-SoftSynth version. They say it just sounds better. (Tarekith will likely disagree.)

Hardtoe · Post by **Hardtoe** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:43 pm

Don't you feel the need for a good set of utility plugs though (ie compressor, eq, reverb, etc) I can see what you mean about VSTi's, but the wave arts bundle is essential for me - Live's bundled plugs of this type are not in the same league.....

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:49 pm

i got rid of my HW synths, cause i couldn't stand the hassle of midi out to the synths, audio back in, timing issues you mentioned (i like quantization, so just recording audio doesn't generally work for me). but i've considered picking up an outboard synth just to have something different to work on (knobs good, not staring at screen).

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:01 pm

Yes, the wavearts are very good. However, the CPU hit is always difficult for me to swallow. Perhaps when I get a dualcore, I'll stop using Live's plugs and go to Wavearts or Waves. For now, I can get the sound I need out of Live's plugs...just need enough massaging

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:04 pm

dj superflat wrote:i got rid of my HW synths, cause i couldn't stand the hassle of midi out to the synths, audio back in, timing issues you mentioned (i like quantization, so just recording audio doesn't generally work for me). but i've considered picking up an outboard synth just to have something different to work on (knobs good, not staring at screen).

Yeah, I agree - it's hard to do the extra work when I know that timing issues are history with VSTi, but then when I listen to the music I made with VSTIs only, and I listen to the music I make now with hardware, it's a night and day difference.

njh · Post by **njh** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:13 am

i dont know if i am getting sick of vsti's or just sick of using other people's vsti's. with software like max/msp i am starting just to use stuff i make..
that said i am not at all sick of amp sims or the effects in live. with the racks, live has almost became a modular instrument and effects enviorment.

njh · Post by **njh** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:19 am

also i have not seen anyone comment on the reverb in live 6 but, to me it has been greatly improved. it has become my favorite reverb out there.

glu · Post by **glu** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:20 am

I have learned to record the triton in as audio, and its actually good musicianship practice to not have the ability to quantise. I used to use quatise all the time when I sequenced in the triton, now I find I can play a lot tighter- both on guitar and on keys, knowing that I have to get the take right and that I can't fix it by moving a little square. Somethings absolutely require quantisation for the specific style one is going for, but for most of the stuff i record from the triton, i do it thru audio. So far it's only helped me get better at playing, and I still find myself cranking out tunes... more than usual this season actually.

just my experience...

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:32 am

njh wrote:also i have not seen anyone comment on the reverb in live 6 but, to me it has been greatly improved. it has become my favorite reverb out there.

I agree, the reverb seems better indeed. (I can just imagine Henke having a chuckle right now, in the event that they did absolutely nothing to the reverb, and we're experiencing the placebo effect...)

bgone · Post by **bgone** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:00 am

actually i don't, I'm just really fast and scrolling through the directory hehe.
maybe one day if I hear a really good way of organizing and know for sure it won't mess up my music I might put things into seperate folders according to what style of plug it is, like subtractives, fm's, reverbs, delays. does anyone know if you can move your vst's and au's into different sub folders will your songs still find them or will they be all like "cannot locate blah blah blah"

I have moved my vst's into various subfolders and have had no problems with Live re-finding them...Live scans your vst directory each time it is launched. Worst case scenario, you can just turn off your user defined vst directory in prefs and then turn it back on and Live will do an even more thorough scan.

Lewby · Post by **Lewby** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 6:40 pm

Thanks for all the great replies.

My real point I suppose is that it was too easy to fire up a VST, load a preset and leave it at that. I want to get back the craft to creating a sound.

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:03 pm

I've been pondering this lately as well. Mainly because I'm finding that I can do pretty much everything I want with only a few things. Lately I've been thinking if all I had was Live with sampler, things wouldn't be all that bad. As I've been waiting for my komplete package to go UB, I've definitely enjoyed the simplicity. But once it comes, I'm sure I'll forget all about that.

I can actually say though, owning Logic, the Live bundle, komplete 4, rp blue, a few audio damage plugs, and having just bought the izotope bundle, and a discounted educational rayspace reverb (40 bucks only!), I see no need to ever buy any plug-in again. ever. (except N.I. Massive because I've got a 200 dollar on-line store coupon, and that thing sounds crazy with all that wavetable synthesis- like malstrom on ultra-steroids). But seriously. I don't want anything else ever.

I will take this moment to hereby declare myself finished with the purchase of plug-ins, other than to upgrade what I have if necessary.

Oh, and I agree totally that the reverb sounds better in L6! I'm not sure if I trust myself on that, but if it's placebo, I'm glad I'm not alone.

grb

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:20 pm

Lewby wrote:Thanks for all the great replies.

My real point I suppose is that it was too easy to fire up a VST, load a preset and leave it at that. I want to get back the craft to creating a sound.

This is the biggest reason for simplifying. I found that I got so lazy with patch creation due to the 4000+ presets available for Albino (just one example), that now I really look forward to my own sounds when I have become better versed in fewer tools.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:28 pm

Same here. The fewer plugins, the more productivity.

Becoming a covert operator was the best thing that ever happened to me when it comes to sound design.
I'm literally hooked to doing this. And I'm trying to do everything with Live and a very minimal amount of plugins.
Operator is very very versatile. Sampler is built around the same line of thinking, but i've barely scratched the surface on that one. Though i must admit that Abletons content for sampler kicks major ass. Especially the ambient stuff.

Said it before and i'll say it again....
Gotta love the A's (Ableton, Alphakanal, Audiorealism, Audiodamage)