Why does my rendered track sound bad????
Why does my rendered track sound bad????
I just took an imported AIFF file and tried remixing it ... just extending a few of the bridges and whatnot ... then I sent it to iTunes to play it ... and it has this rough sound to it ... a bit scratchy. Is this just what happens when you manipulate music or is there a way to solve it? I have the filter set to "complex", so I thought it would sound decent, but compared to the original, the Ableton version sounds like crap. Any advice?
Hello ivanguy,
Could you specify "sounds like crap"? If you make extensive use of timestretching, pitchshifting and other soundmanipulations, it certainly affects the quality of
the source material.
best,
Christian Kleine
support@ableton.com
Could you specify "sounds like crap"? If you make extensive use of timestretching, pitchshifting and other soundmanipulations, it certainly affects the quality of
the source material.
best,
Christian Kleine
support@ableton.com
I have problems with this as well, though I wouldn't say it sounds like "crap"...
It just sounds much thinner and more "smashed together" when I render a multitrack mix in Ableton as opposed to Logic 7. Even with single, solo'd tracks there's something lost in the render, and it's not as nocitcable when I use resampling or routed recording to another track. I don't get it, hopefully the issue will be resolved in Ableton 6.
One huge issue that I've noticed is when I've rendered down my basslines to import into Logic. It drives me nuts... they sound horrible and thuddy, no matter what instrument I've been using. I make a lot of my basslines w/ the Vanguard, and every time it just sound odd, like something's missing, and it's not as thick.
Also, once I've finally gotten around to rerecording my entire Ableton mix's multitracking and imported it into Logic, it already sounds worlds better as far as the spacing and cohesiveness of the mix... it just takes forever to do it without rendering. I can't figure out for the life of me why the multitrack playback sounds so much cleaner and spacious in Logic.
One other noticable issue is the rendering of Ableton-specific sounds.. .y'know, glitches and transpositions etc... they don't sound as sharp and intense when they're rendered.
No, I'm not normalizing in Ableton, though I've tried to see what the difference is, and it's even worse. I'd rather use one of my mastering plugins to get that headroom maximized.
Regardless, I like to do my final mixes and effecting in Logic anyway... What would be nice is if there was a solid way to choose an option which could mix down and render all of the tracks individually to be imported into a DAW... At the moment doing it manually is very tedious... I'd of course prefer it if there was a single option to click which could do it, and then I could come back a couple hours later and it'd be done.
Still, the manual rendering lag issue isn't the biggest concern. That would just be a time saving convenience issue. Something is lost in the rendering and that's a big issue for using the program for music production/writing, and at first I thought it was just me... then Plaid also mentioned it in their interview in CMusic. It's a big problem, and bending over backwards to get around it via Rewiring is no fun.
I still write all my songs in Ableton Live, and I will continue to do so. I can't imagine working without the interface, which I think is far more expressive and "instrument-like" than any other software sequencing option. There's just some sonic tweaks that need to be worked out.
It just sounds much thinner and more "smashed together" when I render a multitrack mix in Ableton as opposed to Logic 7. Even with single, solo'd tracks there's something lost in the render, and it's not as nocitcable when I use resampling or routed recording to another track. I don't get it, hopefully the issue will be resolved in Ableton 6.
One huge issue that I've noticed is when I've rendered down my basslines to import into Logic. It drives me nuts... they sound horrible and thuddy, no matter what instrument I've been using. I make a lot of my basslines w/ the Vanguard, and every time it just sound odd, like something's missing, and it's not as thick.
Also, once I've finally gotten around to rerecording my entire Ableton mix's multitracking and imported it into Logic, it already sounds worlds better as far as the spacing and cohesiveness of the mix... it just takes forever to do it without rendering. I can't figure out for the life of me why the multitrack playback sounds so much cleaner and spacious in Logic.
One other noticable issue is the rendering of Ableton-specific sounds.. .y'know, glitches and transpositions etc... they don't sound as sharp and intense when they're rendered.
No, I'm not normalizing in Ableton, though I've tried to see what the difference is, and it's even worse. I'd rather use one of my mastering plugins to get that headroom maximized.
Regardless, I like to do my final mixes and effecting in Logic anyway... What would be nice is if there was a solid way to choose an option which could mix down and render all of the tracks individually to be imported into a DAW... At the moment doing it manually is very tedious... I'd of course prefer it if there was a single option to click which could do it, and then I could come back a couple hours later and it'd be done.
Still, the manual rendering lag issue isn't the biggest concern. That would just be a time saving convenience issue. Something is lost in the rendering and that's a big issue for using the program for music production/writing, and at first I thought it was just me... then Plaid also mentioned it in their interview in CMusic. It's a big problem, and bending over backwards to get around it via Rewiring is no fun.
I still write all my songs in Ableton Live, and I will continue to do so. I can't imagine working without the interface, which I think is far more expressive and "instrument-like" than any other software sequencing option. There's just some sonic tweaks that need to be worked out.
-
saintjasin
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:19 am
- Location: Los Angeles
- Contact:
re: rendering sounding like crap
yes, definitely there is a problem there. Before rendering songs, they sound one way, and immediately after upon playback they sound another way, regardless to what type of file you render, .wav, .aif and regardless to bit depth or sample rate...I'm pissed right now online looking for a tip or something. I have to render, listen to the result, then go back a guesstimate what reverb to fix or what to notch out...it sucks...but I love live, so I'll deal with it...please tell me they're gonna fix it...
Hard work breeds good fortune...
You're absolutely correct about all of these issues and can confirmed them all.Jinsai wrote: It just sounds much thinner and more "smashed together" when I render a multitrack mix in Ableton as opposed to Logic 7. Even with single, solo'd tracks there's something lost in the render…
One huge issue that I've noticed is when I've rendered down my basslines to import into Logic. It drives me nuts... they sound horrible and thuddy, no matter what instrument I've been using.
Also, once I've finally gotten around to rerecording my entire Ableton mix's multitracking and imported it into Logic, it already sounds worlds better as far as the spacing and cohesiveness of the mix..
One other noticable issue is the rendering of Ableton-specific sounds.. .y'know, glitches and transpositions etc... they don't sound as sharp and intense when they're rendered.
I read that version 6 has an "export all tracks" feature but if the renders sound the same or anywhere close to the way they do in v5, it will be new unusable fonction. But if you want v6, you'll have to pay for it. Normal wouldn't you say. What is less than normal is that I could not use Live 5 professionally since the day I bought it because no updates fixed those issues. And we'll have no choice but to pay again to know if it's fixed in Live 6.
Last edited by xl5 on Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: re: rendering sounding like crap
Hello,saintjasin wrote:yes, definitely there is a problem there. Before rendering songs, they sound one way, and immediately after upon playback they sound another way, regardless to what type of file you render, .wav, .aif and regardless to bit depth or sample rate...I'm pissed right now online looking for a tip or something. I have to render, listen to the result, then go back a guesstimate what reverb to fix or what to notch out...it sucks...but I love live, so I'll deal with it...please tell me they're gonna fix it...
Live renders should sound the same as what you hear when playing back the track in Live. Your problem sounds like a third party plugind that would not update correctly during the render process. If you have such problems, you should do a real time rendering: create an audio track, set its input to "Resample", and record the result of the Master track as a new clip. The Sample rate and bit depth will be those you've set in the Preferences.
Hope that helps,
kind regards,
Amaury
Ableton Product Team
first kick sounds distorted
Hey Amaury.....just got 5.2 and learning and loving it.....run into an issue i can't fix.....when i playback in the arrangement window the first kick ALWAYS sounds distorted ...WHY?
Re: first kick sounds distorted
Hello,wax115 wrote:Hey Amaury.....just got 5.2 and learning and loving it.....run into an issue i can't fix.....when i playback in the arrangement window the first kick ALWAYS sounds distorted ...WHY?
there could be various reasons for that, for example an automation written by accident on the Kick track. Check the volume or the effects automation, if any.
regards,
Amaury
Ableton Product Team
Known issue
Hi!
This is a known issue in the pro scene (music production/engineering - where I come from). I am using Live since v2 and this is really a very annoying issue (and the reason I did not buy it and am still using a demo).
I discovered a lot of people in the internet using Logic/DP/Protools/Soundtrack Pro etc. and all (including me) hear a difference in the output. That's why I started this post using "pro scene" as we are trained to "hear" things more. There almost always a difference in the output regardless of rendering or playing. And as I heard Ableton seems to ignore (actually deny) this problem. I hope they will take this more seriously as Live is one of the best creative app I've ever worked with and it changed my workflow completely.
My tip is: Use your ears and double check with other apps. For instance, BLUE (VST Plug by Rop Papen) has some presets sounding totally different on Live compared to other hosts. If you run in this use the other app unless you like this "new interpretation" (which in fact I did)
My setup is as follows:
I run Protools rewiring Live -> doing a lot of my creative work there and record finished clips using the "Bounce to Disk" feature of my Protools (a kind of "render" in Live). But, as I mentioned above use your ears! If it sounds good to you then go for it. If not, use a different host.
Hope this helps you.
This is a known issue in the pro scene (music production/engineering - where I come from). I am using Live since v2 and this is really a very annoying issue (and the reason I did not buy it and am still using a demo).
I discovered a lot of people in the internet using Logic/DP/Protools/Soundtrack Pro etc. and all (including me) hear a difference in the output. That's why I started this post using "pro scene" as we are trained to "hear" things more. There almost always a difference in the output regardless of rendering or playing. And as I heard Ableton seems to ignore (actually deny) this problem. I hope they will take this more seriously as Live is one of the best creative app I've ever worked with and it changed my workflow completely.
My tip is: Use your ears and double check with other apps. For instance, BLUE (VST Plug by Rop Papen) has some presets sounding totally different on Live compared to other hosts. If you run in this use the other app unless you like this "new interpretation" (which in fact I did)
My setup is as follows:
I run Protools rewiring Live -> doing a lot of my creative work there and record finished clips using the "Bounce to Disk" feature of my Protools (a kind of "render" in Live). But, as I mentioned above use your ears! If it sounds good to you then go for it. If not, use a different host.
Hope this helps you.
Best
the_Alien
the_Alien
yeah...
to Amaury....checked everything, still problem exist! a bit dissapointing....it happens for all songs...the first kick is ALWAYS DISTORTED.....this needs to be looked at and not ignored or brushed aside....
Re: yeah...
Your first kick starts exactly on the first beat of bar 1, doesn't it? Insert one bar of silence before the song begins - helps for me in all DAWs where I've had this peculiarity occur (Live, Logic, ProTools).wax115 wrote:to Amaury....checked everything, still problem exist! a bit dissapointing....it happens for all songs...the first kick is ALWAYS DISTORTED.....this needs to be looked at and not ignored or brushed aside....
more like this
Hi there, a few things on this.
1. I completely agree about how great Live is, I have been using it since v1 and it is indeed revolutionary - thankyou.
2. Due to recent improvements and developments I am now using live for production as well as DJing. I am now noticing problems with sound quality after using the 'render to disk' option. I have yet to test this thoroughly in all scenario's, but the reason I ended up on this forum tonight was because of this exact issue and to see what other people are doing about it. I will try resampling everything and see if that improves things - however:
3. Tonight I have been re-wiring Rebirth into Live and the sound quality from rendering is unworkable - night and day difference between rewired sounds and rendered sounds. I have tried resampling instead of rendering and the exact same fuzzy, dull sound emerges. I tried to render at a higher sample rate (previously was using 44.1, moved up to 96K). The result of this was that the audio from Rebirth PITCH SHIFTED up around an octave and a bit. It did sound a bit tighter though Transposing it down to the correct pitch again obviously didn't help the sound quality.
I thought this might due to Live playing the 96k file when the sample rate in my preferences was 44.1, so I tried changing the sample rate settings in the Live preferences to 96k. This made the rewired audio signal from ReBirth pitch shift in exactly the same way as the recording!?!?
Erm - any idea's on this one? Is rebirth too old to be compatible at high sample rates, or is there something amiss to be fixed - either way it's unfortunate because rendering / resampling this application through Live at 44.1k sample rate sounds terrible.
First major gripe I've had about Live, sorry! But a majorly important one if Live is realise it's potential to become the go-to application for production. Here's hoping!
1. I completely agree about how great Live is, I have been using it since v1 and it is indeed revolutionary - thankyou.
2. Due to recent improvements and developments I am now using live for production as well as DJing. I am now noticing problems with sound quality after using the 'render to disk' option. I have yet to test this thoroughly in all scenario's, but the reason I ended up on this forum tonight was because of this exact issue and to see what other people are doing about it. I will try resampling everything and see if that improves things - however:
3. Tonight I have been re-wiring Rebirth into Live and the sound quality from rendering is unworkable - night and day difference between rewired sounds and rendered sounds. I have tried resampling instead of rendering and the exact same fuzzy, dull sound emerges. I tried to render at a higher sample rate (previously was using 44.1, moved up to 96K). The result of this was that the audio from Rebirth PITCH SHIFTED up around an octave and a bit. It did sound a bit tighter though
Transposing it down to the correct pitch again obviously didn't help the sound quality.I thought this might due to Live playing the 96k file when the sample rate in my preferences was 44.1, so I tried changing the sample rate settings in the Live preferences to 96k. This made the rewired audio signal from ReBirth pitch shift in exactly the same way as the recording!?!?
Erm - any idea's on this one? Is rebirth too old to be compatible at high sample rates, or is there something amiss to be fixed - either way it's unfortunate because rendering / resampling this application through Live at 44.1k sample rate sounds terrible.
First major gripe I've had about Live, sorry! But a majorly important one if Live is realise it's potential to become the go-to application for production. Here's hoping!