Wht is PVD doing, SERIOUSLY.

kiddy · Post by **kiddy** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:45 pm

I was at the gig in question (good grief @tall trees), and all three laptops were PVD's. I assume one is just a back up. He also had 3 laptops at the gallery a few months before.

It seems like a lot of kit just to loop plastikman - spastic over the top of everything

He played a good set though. There was one point where he must have had a clip of The Egg - Walking away, on loop, and forgot. The clip went all the way back to the start of the song lol

moostapha · Post by **moostapha** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:48 pm

A lot of you people are dumb.

Short version: He probably uses SSL and Live together because Live sucks for DJing. It's okay for production and good for live remixing if (and only if) you can get multitrack recordings, but it just plain sucks for DJing.

He probably uses the CDJs for when he wants to play songs in their entirety and uses Live to remix tracks he has multitracks of (it's only legitimate use for DJing). I'm betting that in the tracklist on that site, everything that just says "ID" was a remix/composition performed in Live and the tracks with citations were played through CDJs and SSL.

As far as using SSL and CDJs...it's kindof bullshit. SSL is easier to carry, you don't have to burn CDs, you can use algorithmic search, and it has 5 saved hot cues per track instead of 3 on MMC cards (with CDJ-1000s)...there are reasons to use it, but...I don't really think they're all that important right now.

Jan Holm · Post by **Jan Holm** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:08 pm

Once again I would like to point to my .sig

If Yes = "who gives a fcuk"
If No = see if yes

kiddy · Post by **kiddy** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:30 pm

you are so wrong! Live does not suck for DJ'ing. How else would you be able to loop plastikman - spastik over the whole 2 hrs of your set???

jonathono2000 · Post by **jonathono2000** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:33 pm

This post was not about wether or not he is good or bad (I personally like him) it was about his equipment. The funny thing is I don't remember anybody saying anything about his talent but for some reason or another some people felt the need to defend it — weird???

All that mumbo jumbo about timecode and whatever is a sockful of malarchy.

What is he doing plain and simple.

He plays mp3s from one computer using serato and then feeds the audio signal through live and uses it like an fx box, occasionally adding loops samples and constructing complete songs from those elements.

Not complicated at all and not at all the way I would go about setting something up to give me access to that set of functionality.

But Im sure it sounds cool.

kiddy · Post by **kiddy** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:40 pm

he played a wicked set the other day when i saw him play with 3 laptops, and a xone3d. but nobody was complaining when he was playing 6hr sets at Gatecrasher in 1999 with only a box of records and 2 decks.

the thing is, someone has spent hours producing tunes to perfection, only for some dj to come and start cutting bits out and looping a bit of plastikman over the top.

I think as a DJ, you have to ask yourself (as you activate beat repeat), are you really adding anything to the music as a whole, or simply playing with your knobs.

moostapha · Post by **moostapha** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:33 am

Oh yeah, and as to the timecode -> ableton people...go look at the one good feature of the xone:3d...the midi click and how it deals with it...

Seriously, I use Ableton Live all of the time to make custom edits because it's the easiest software I've found to cut out or loop sections to alter the structure of a song (mostly to eliminate annoying breakdowns in trance). But, frankly, you can do the same thing with doubles or CDJs with looping/hot cues.

You want to add samples? Get a third deck.

Face it. Until you can obtain multitrack recordings, Ableton doesn't add anything to your DJing. And even then, it makes it more like a Live PA set than a DJ set.

PVD's live shows are probably pretty cool; he was allrgiht last time I saw him (when he was traveling with just FS2). And he can get multitrack recordings to do Live PA type stuff during his sets. Which is cool. But he also still DJs, hence my comment about the tracklist at that show. And that's the reason he uses CDJs/SSL...because strictly DJing whith full tracks in live is boring as hell. I've done it. I took time off my decks to learn Ableton really well, and I decided it was a waste of time and energy because it takes no effort. If you can make a tracklist, you can DJ with Ableton...if you can count measures, you can do it using nothing but clip envelopes and follow actions.

And that's not who I wanted to be.

As far as SSL with CDJs...well, I can see a reason to do it, mostly because of using search features to find a track instead of looking through your crate/wallet.

supster · Post by **supster** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:06 am

jonathono2000 wrote:This post was not about wether or not he is good or bad (I personally like him) it was about his equipment.

The funny thing is I don't remember anybody saying anything about his talent but for some reason or another some people felt the need to defend it — weird???

the post was about his equipment

the responses were more about how ridiculous the equipment was, and (either stating or implying) that its either

a) stupid for him to be using it that way (when they actually had no clue what he did with it) and/or

b) that he wasnt using it at all, and that he was pulling the wool over people eyes

but, hardly anyone could come up with a reasonable way he was using it until a couple of us spelled out what he's most likely doing

the point isnt whether you like what he does or not, or have some wierd hatred of DJs and DJ culture.

the point is: yes he probably has been hooking up gear and performing for people longer than most of the kids on threads like these have been alive ..

and yes he undoubtedly knows what he's doing ...

.

leonard · Post by **leonard** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:56 am

supster wrote: that is, the ones that are not sitting around with thier thumb up thier ass trying to prove how cool and above it all they are. wierdo

I'm NORMAL, dammit!!!

leonard · Post by **leonard** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:56 am

kooki415 · Post by **kooki415** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:06 am

question not the righteousness of knob twiddleing. BLASPHEMER!!

supster · Post by **supster** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:31 am

moostapha wrote: You want to add samples? Get a third deck.

Face it. Until you can obtain multitrack recordings, Ableton doesn't add anything to your DJing. And even then, it makes it more like a Live PA set than a DJ set.

... strictly DJing whith full tracks in live is boring as hell. I've done it. I took time off my decks to learn Ableton really well, and I decided it was a waste of time and energy because it takes no effort.

by the way:

let me guess .. you spent all that effort learning how to DJ with Live - duplicating what you can do with decks and CDJs (basically)

then you played for people ... and you took some shit from other (vinyl) DJs, and maybe some of the people in the club made smartass comments

because you were obviously DJing the same old way, but from behind a laptop, and they couldnt hear any difference

so you got scared, started paying lip service and agreeing with them, and you gave up

ya?

suprisingly - if you do it half way well - people do notice the difference and will come right out and tell you.

because if you have some vision to be creative with it, and they hear it and like it,

well then at least you had the balls to believe in what you were doing and went ahead with it, not really giving a fuck what anybody else thought of it

.

supster · Post by **supster** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:33 am

leonard wrote:
supster wrote: that is, the ones that are not sitting around with thier thumb up thier ass trying to prove how cool and above it all they are. wierdo
I'm NORMAL, dammit!!!

i dont believe you

normal people never come in the General forum here ...

other than to occasionally take shots at the regulars when theyre bored

.

apropos · Post by **apropos** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:38 am

You people should get off yr high horses - PVD is amazing at what he does (did you catch the video of him playing with the orchestra recently?) and whether or not he's doing something you agree with, he gets the kids jumping. That's really what it's all about. Or a big part of it anyway.

I happen to like PVD a lot, and actually I think the Politics of Dancing CDs are great (Vol.1 was better), and I love that title as well.

Opinion, opinion. Back yrself up with some of yr music if you want to rip on PVD. God knows mine can't compare.

DJSK · Post by **DJSK** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:13 am

It's not that I don't think Paul Van Dyk is a great DJ or anything it's just the simple fact that he isn't doing anything special with the CDJ's and serato that he can't do with ableton. He's a great DJ, producer, and a great guy.

However, he has even quoted himself in the past as being largely opposed to any digital software (mainly ableton) that beatmatches for you. He also then came back and withdrew his opposition after realizing the full potential of Ableton.

I understand if he wants to bring Serato out as a backup but from the last 4 times that I have seen him play is that he uses the 2 back and fourth. Don't get me wrong I think it is a really cool idea how he runs serato through the XONE 3d and then uses the midi clock of the xone to sync it up with ableton. But if you aren't doing anything more than a couple of backspins and maybe a powerdown then I really don't see the point. He's no turntablist and I think that most of his fans go to hear him mix not see it.

It's just reminds me of 2001 when the Pioneer CDJ-1000 came out. You had DJ's who jumped right on the technology and starting learning it and you had others who only used it half of the time. And it was ususally because they either just preferred mixing with vinyl or they thought that CDJ's were easier to use and that it was cheating.

As a fan of Paul van Dyk I would just prefer it if he would just stick to getting really creative with ableton and take his mixing to a whole new level.