setting up a drum bus??
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setting up a drum bus??
Well I thought I knew what how to set up a bus in Live.
So I route several tracks hosting drum sounds ( played by a simpler) over to a track named "Drum Bus"
That way I can process the drum sounds all together. but.... I also have a return channel set up with parallel compression.
The processed compression signal is sent to the master track.
So If I try to do a filter sweep on the drums via a filter on the "drum Bus" track, the drum bus signal affected, but the parallel
compression signal is not affected. I want to do a sweep on the entirety of drums.
So I thought I could just send the parallel compression signal to the drum bus . That way all the drum audio is running through the drum bus
and can be processed as a whole.
When I do that , something goes horribly wrong. The audio coming out sound terrible with what sounds like phasing problems.
What am I missing??
Brian
So I route several tracks hosting drum sounds ( played by a simpler) over to a track named "Drum Bus"
That way I can process the drum sounds all together. but.... I also have a return channel set up with parallel compression.
The processed compression signal is sent to the master track.
So If I try to do a filter sweep on the drums via a filter on the "drum Bus" track, the drum bus signal affected, but the parallel
compression signal is not affected. I want to do a sweep on the entirety of drums.
So I thought I could just send the parallel compression signal to the drum bus . That way all the drum audio is running through the drum bus
and can be processed as a whole.
When I do that , something goes horribly wrong. The audio coming out sound terrible with what sounds like phasing problems.
What am I missing??
Brian
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Re: setting up a drum bus??
First of all this doesn't happen to me when I try it with Waves C4 on the return. Is possibly your Delay Compensation off or the Reduced Latency When Monitoring on?brian sansone wrote: So I thought I could just send the parallel compression signal to the drum bus . That way all the drum audio is running through the drum bus
and can be processed as a whole.
When I do that , something goes horribly wrong. The audio coming out sound terrible with what sounds like phasing problems.
What am I missing??
How much latency does the compressor on the return add? Mine is 64 samples.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: setting up a drum bus??
Stromkraft wrote:First of all this doesn't happen to me when I try it with Waves C4 on the return. Is possibly your Delay Compensation off or Reduced Latency When Monitoring on?brian sansone wrote: So I thought I could just send the parallel compression signal to the drum bus . That way all the drum audio is running through the drum bus
and can be processed as a whole.
When I do that , something goes horribly wrong. The audio coming out sound terrible with what sounds like phasing problems.
What am I missing??
How much latency does the compressor on the return add? Mine is 64 samples.
well the problem only arises when I try send the return signal to my drum bus, instead of the master track. Not sure what i missing, unless I'm just introducing a bunch of latency by sending audio this way instead of that way.
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Re: setting up a drum bus??
That's great unless you need to send something else to the same chain. Also, there is probably a reason why I'm not experiencing this issue in my setup.Winterpark wrote:The solution is not to use a return channel for your parallel processing.
Just group the FX that you're currently using on the return on the drum bus channel, and then create a new 'empty' chain. The chain volumes now become your wet/dry FX.
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Re: setting up a drum bus??
Winterpark wrote:The solution is not to use a return channel for your parallel processing.
Just group the FX that you're currently using on the return on the drum bus channel, and then create a new 'empty' chain. The chain volumes now become your wet/dry FX.
I did try that too. The signal just didnt seem as clear and good as using a return. That would be a great solution because I use lots of drum track,
mostly processed separately, using parallel compression for most. Maybe I just need to fine tune that method(or do it better/correctly).
Something just didnt sound right though.
I did figure out that you can send audio from one track to another track, and have the receiving track's input set to "no input",
and you get an clean audio signal; but if you set the receiving track's input to receive from the sending track, the volume jumps way up, like your
getting a doubling of audio signal. So I determined that I should set the bus track's input to "no audio", and then send all my drum sounds there .
I think that solved part of the problem. I was getting two signals , when I though I had one.
So I got a good parallel compression signal/mix that way , still using a return track to host the compressor. But...???? if I add a limiter on the
drum buss, I get that same horrible phasing sound. And it doesnt matter if I put the limiter on the return track or the drum buss track?? It has something to do with live's limiter's look ahead function. The phasing sound changes with changing the look ahead values. And here is something really weird!;
it still phases even if I turn the limiter OFF. I have to delete it off the channel to stop the phasing!
I did figure out an even easier solution. I just put the auto filter (for filter sweeps ) on the drum buss, BEFORE the signal goes to the return track.
Then I just send the return signal on to the master like normal. I do still want to know what I'm missing.
Thanks for the input!
Brian
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Re: setting up a drum bus??
Stromkraft wrote:That's great unless you need to send something else to the same chain. Also, there is probably a reason why I'm not experiencing this issue in my setup.Winterpark wrote:The solution is not to use a return channel for your parallel processing.
Just group the FX that you're currently using on the return on the drum bus channel, and then create a new 'empty' chain. The chain volumes now become your wet/dry FX.
exactly. Its got to be something in my set up that i'm missing or screwing up. Maybe even something specific to my computer, which has an overly complicated
consumer audio set up. This issue happens at home on my headphones. I need to check if I have the same problem at my studio , running through
my audio interface. I just thought of that.
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Re: setting up a drum bus??
It's relatively easy to add another element to a group... just drag that channel into the grouped channels.... Have you tried cmd-G of channels to create a group? or just setting them up Live's old way with the audio to and from options available in the i/o?brian sansone wrote:Stromkraft wrote:That's great unless you need to send something else to the same chain. Also, there is probably a reason why I'm not experiencing this issue in my setup.Winterpark wrote:The solution is not to use a return channel for your parallel processing.
Just group the FX that you're currently using on the return on the drum bus channel, and then create a new 'empty' chain. The chain volumes now become your wet/dry FX.
exactly. Its got to be something in my set up that i'm missing or screwing up. Maybe even something specific to my computer, which has an overly complicated
consumer audio set up. This issue happens at home on my headphones. I need to check if I have the same problem at my studio , running through
my audio interface. I just thought of that.
By doing the cmd-g track grouping you get a dedicated send for the group, rather than individual channels, which potentially will solve your filtering problem....
But, the only reason I'd see that you'd want to do parallel processing via sends is if you want to dial only specific elements into that parallel mix.... or dial differing balance between the elements to that parallel mix. Perhaps this is what you're doing?
The phasing problem you're hearing sounds like comb-filtering to me.... and it's being introduced when you add the return channel's signal back into the group for filtering.... another way around it, is to route all the audio from the drum bus and the drum return bus to a new channel (via the i/o method) and put the filter on that.
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Re: setting up a drum bus??
What could be the difference in setup that is a likely reason I don't encounter this you reckon?Winterpark wrote: The phasing problem you're hearing sounds like comb-filtering to me.... and it's being introduced when you add the return channel's signal back into the group for filtering.... another way around it, is to route all the audio from the drum bus and the drum return bus to a new channel (via the i/o method) and put the filter on that.
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Re: setting up a drum bus??
Do you also send the signal from the return channel back into the drum bus like the OP states?Stromkraft wrote: What could be the difference in setup that is a likely reason I don't encounter this you reckon?
brian sansone wrote: So I thought I could just send the parallel compression signal to the drum bus . That way all the drum audio is running through the drum bus
and can be processed as a whole.
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Re: setting up a drum bus??
Yes, as I've already stated I have done that. Are you getting the same phasing or garble issues? I have zero issues doing this.Winterpark wrote:Do you also send the signal from the return channel back into the drum bus like the OP states?Stromkraft wrote: What could be the difference in setup that is a likely reason I don't encounter this you reckon?
brian sansone wrote: So I thought I could just send the parallel compression signal to the drum bus . That way all the drum audio is running through the drum bus
and can be processed as a whole.
I do know that audio routing has some counter-intuitive results from time to time.
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Re: setting up a drum bus??
Mine definitely does has phasing issues when I route the return back into the drum bus, with both C4 and Live's compressor. But this to me is an expected result of this sort of routing. It also changes the 'phased' comb-filtering sound when I change the buffer size.
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Re: setting up a drum bus??
Could you please share a project so I can compare? Splice?Winterpark wrote:Mine definitely does has phasing issues when I route the return back into the drum bus, with both C4 and Live's compressor. But this to me is an expected result of this sort of routing. It also changes the 'phased' comb-filtering sound when I change the buffer size.
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Re: setting up a drum bus??
Sure thing. I've just invited 'Stromkraft' to a project... I assume that's you!Stromkraft wrote:Could you please share a project so I can compare? Splice?Winterpark wrote:Mine definitely does has phasing issues when I route the return back into the drum bus, with both C4 and Live's compressor. But this to me is an expected result of this sort of routing. It also changes the 'phased' comb-filtering sound when I change the buffer size.
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Re: setting up a drum bus??
Strange thing. I hear the issues clearly enough in the project you shared. When I do a route of this type in an existing project I can't hear those issues. I have to do some more tests, but it seems clear this is a real issue.Winterpark wrote:Sure thing.Stromkraft wrote:Could you please share a project so I can compare? Splice?Winterpark wrote:Mine definitely does has phasing issues when I route the return back into the drum bus, with both C4 and Live's compressor. But this to me is an expected result of this sort of routing. It also changes the 'phased' comb-filtering sound when I change the buffer size.
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