Whats the average harmonic content of a bass guitar?

[moonpie]

Whenever I record bass, Im always left with the massive problem that theres rolloff on the guitar at around 150hz. Now it rolls off to round 1k, and sometimes you can get tiny peaks at 2k. We d.i. it straight into my interface. But it always leaves massive mixing problems to try and get the bass heard without having just a muddy low end. The bassist is using a fender Jazz deluxe. I always assumed reading mixing tips for bass guitar that it would have more harmonic content to work with.

Theres a really cool mixing guide I just read -
http://lunahelia.com/article/getting-th ... ass-guitar

But I still think such early rooloff isnt normal? Could the strings just be that dead? Would any of you record bass with the tone control totally open? Even with the tone control its still about the same.

[Moody]

Active or Passive?

[Angstrom]

How old are the strings?
Usually even a passive jazz bass with the tone right open will have lots of top end to work with.
Things to check : new strings, signal path impedance, sound-card input impedance(hi-z), force bassist to use a plectrum !

A straight bass guitar without any tone roll-off, equalisation and any amp, produces a quite wide range "tanking" noise. Not what most people expect.

[3dot...]

150Hz down for the bass ... this is where you want 'solidity'
2.5-5.0KHz (approx.) for the hi tone plucks..
all the mids in between is the 'color'/'character'
this is for the most part where you play around...

if you wish to get a full rich sound from the bass.. some pointers:

fresh strings make much of a difference ..for a bass guitar..
if you want the full spectrum .. get new strings
(some people 'boil' old strings to renew them.. but I don't like it .. it kills the sustain of the string)

some people like and want the old string sound.. (like the legendary James Jameson) ..but it's pretty easy to emulate that with subtractive eq and a gentle 'gate'....

make sure that when recording direct to the preamp that you've got your gain structure right..
a bass guitar TRS should go in an high-Z input (usualy available on amps..
on audio interfaces/small-format mixers usually marked as 'inst'..
in any case the optimal way is to pass it to a DI box and get it to 'mic' level and then into a mic preamp... for better SNR)

if the bass has "active" circuitry.. ... a -10dB line level will probably suffice..not always..
(active bass guitars come in a variety of "volumes")
generally if the sound gets distorted on the input...it sucks..
this is why bass amps usually have 2 inputs.. to avoid clipping in the entrance to the amp.. some don't and simply have a gain knob.
this is not an issue if you're not using an bass amp...
simply keep the input from clipping ...


experiment with recording bass with a mic and amp... it's so much better imo..
(I usually record both DI and MIC.. and choose later..)

for many contemporary genres... dynamics of the bass is almost non-existent.. it's either off or on..
this makes it sound consistent for a solid foundation..
becuase of this "percussion" mentality you can play around with compressors pretty freely...
it can help if your bass players'playing is lacking in dynamics..
(and let's face it 'solid' bass players are not so many)
or to make the sounds to be fuller (bringing up harmonics etc).. punchier or more sustained (dynamics)..
the rule of thumb about compressor applies here as well .. .
too much will KILL your sound..

a reverb on bass is considered a big "no no" in the traditional scheme of things..
I find that short reverbs on the bass does wonders in certain conditions..where the bass is the dominant instrument

in my experience if a bass guitar generally sounds nice..and the player is good..
then there is very little (if any) eq needed..

[Piplodocus]

I've never been happy with a straight DI'ed bass guitar sound, even with my Hi-Z input on the MOTU and an active bass, so I run mine through a tube preamp first (my guitar amp preamp).

I'm far from any expert on mixing bass though, I just posted a "how d'you mix bass guitars nicely" post myself (must be bass recording week!), but I do know that gives me a MUCH better starting point at least.

[Moody]

New strings for a bass is over rated, especially electrics. To me it sounds like you really need some kind of pre to record through. I have never been happy with my bass sound when plugged directly into MOTU (or any other interface I have tried) gear.

[Tone Deft]

agreed on new strings being overkill.
disagree on doing straight into Live, YMMV.

I'll start Live recording the mic and my bass. then I'll talk out loud about what I'm adjusting and go through various settings. do that for a while then go back and listen to hear what setting worked best.

I've heard that the 'easiest' way to record guitars is to record them with the tone controls wide open then you EQ out later. I've come to realize that this just pushes the tone problem one step further down the pipe.

spend time setting up your tools. then make notes on those settings.

[Angstrom]

new strings might be overkill if the strings are 6 months old.
but how old are these?

they could have been on there since 1972, and covered in beer and fur

[Tone Deft]

there's a plug in to get that 'beer and fur' sound, some people like it.

that advice was given to be my a fiendish bass playing coworker after I put new strings on my bass. as a guitar player, that's what you do when you buy a new axe, put new strings on it. $60 later I had new bass strings and the tone didn't really change.

YMMV of course, naturally there are lots of opinions on this. another friend insists on boiling his strings before installing them, so it goes.

[3dot...]

New strings for a bass is over rated, especially electrics.

it does matter..
you're probably speaking from a very subjective point..
I'm not saying old strings sound bad..
(I change my strings once a year or even two... wear the "new sound" out about a month in..)

I for one could care less... but you shouldn't dismiss it..

objectively.....it's good to know
if you're striving for a certain sustained/bright/metallic sound old strings won't do at all..
anyway you turn it..
they cannot produce that motion anymore as if they were young and springy..
this is why many professional players change their strings once a week.. and some for EVERY GIG..to get that response from the strings

you can think of it logically..
take 2 identical sets of bass strings.. 1 worn 1 new.. they would not vibrate the same..
put them on the same model bass and play..with the same amp on neutral settings...(or simply DI)
try to sustain a note on both.. try to create/sustain an 'overtone' on both..
each bass guitar will sound and respond completely different.. even though it's the same guitar through the exact..same processing..
which is better ?! well..taste is subjective..
and depends on what sound you'd like

with bass-guitar it's even more noticeable than the higher pitched 6 string electric guitars
unlike the guitar..
in bass the sound is more dependent on the instrument than processing/amp chain..
unlike electric-guitar simply recording bass DI . is gonna give you satisfactory results almost every time..
providing the instrument and the player aren't completely shit..

if an electric guitar is gonna go through a bunch of fx.. then I guess it doesn't..
but it does for clean guitar..it most certainly does make the sound of a guitar DIFFERENT..
usually with more "presence" as a product of richer in harmonics

[Moody]

New strings for a bass is over rated, especially electrics.

it does matter..
you're probably speaking from a very subjective point..
I'm not saying old strings sound bad..
(I change my strings once a year or even two... wear the "new sound" out about a month in..)

I for one could care less... but you shouldn't dismiss it..

objectively.....it's good to know
if you're striving for a certain sustained/bright/metallic sound old strings won't do at all..
anyway you turn it..
they cannot produce that motion anymore as if they were young and springy..
this is why many professional players change their strings once a week.. and some for EVERY GIG..to get that response from the strings

you can think of it logically..
take 2 identical sets of bass strings.. 1 worn 1 new.. they would not vibrate the same..
put them on the same model bass and play..with the same amp on neutral settings...(or simply DI)
try to sustain a note on both.. try to create/sustain an 'overtone' on both..
each bass guitar will sound and respond completely different.. even though it's the same guitar through the exact..same processing..
which is better ?! well..taste is subjective..
and depends on what sound you'd like

with bass-guitar it's even more noticeable than the higher pitched 6 string electric guitars
unlike the guitar..
in bass the sound is more dependent on the instrument than processing/amp chain..
unlike electric-guitar simply recording bass DI . is gonna give you satisfactory results almost every time..
providing the instrument and the player aren't completely shit..

if an electric guitar is gonna go through a bunch of fx.. then I guess it doesn't..
but it does for clean guitar..it most certainly does make the sound of a guitar DIFFERENT..
usually with more "presence" as a product of richer in harmonics

All subjective on my part for sure, although if you wanted to change from rounds to flats it obviously will affect the sound, but my last set of bass strings were on for 8 years. Typically I am not looking for bright tones from my bass. I like the jazzier sound. To each their own… I think the op would probably benefit from some kind of preamp. I simply use my Boss ME-50B. It really takes a lot of fiddling around to get a good recorded bass sound. Usually it is hard to beat DI + Micing.

[Tone Deft]

ask google. the consensus is that some change them often, some never change them. google around.

no doubt that the hard headed posters will take this on to 20 pages.

[3dot...]

na...I don't need to 'google.. I've been surrounded by musicians my whole life.I know the trends..
while the global view of players might go 50/50 on new/old strings view..
I'm willing to bet that it's 20/80 in the hobby/professional player view..

I don't really mind.. it's a matter of taste..

it's just that for some cheap guitars.. the strings will make a big difference in the definition of the sound and sustain..

I'm like 'moody' in my bass sound aesthetic..
as for guitar.. new strings are a sure way to bring some brightness into the sound
but I've made my decision from trying out..plus my taste in music..
and not by some dude in the forum telling me what's wrong from right..
so the dude should at least try the new strings approach is all I'm saying..
my 2c..
strictly technical..

hehe.. that's all I'm gonna say about strings TD..I'm beginning to feel awkward

[Piplodocus]

with bass-guitar it's even more noticeable than the higher pitched 6 string electric guitars
unlike the guitar..

....

if an electric guitar is gonna go through a bunch of fx.. then I guess it doesn't..
but it does for clean guitar..it most certainly does make the sound of a guitar DIFFERENT..
usually with more "presence" as a product of richer in harmonics

I beg to differ. With guitar I'd say it's much more important to change the strings when recording. Especially since it's a more trebly instrument. I'd say it becomes even more apparent playing through an expensive amp with expensive guitar too. Makes the difference between a cutting clear distortion and a fuzzy mess too.

I'd say strings is an important consideration on a bass, which may well help and could be the "missing piece" of the puzzle. Doesn't make as much difference to my ears as a tube preamp (or mic'ing a cab though). But also I use flats on my bass as well so it might not be so obvious.
On a guitar it's a complete no-brainer and MUST be done for a decent recording. Maybe if you use crap modelling amps with no attack, and plaster it in effects to hide how bad the tone is, then maybe not. They're also 1/3rd the price of bass strings and better value for money as you get 6 instead of 4!

Could be worth asking the string question over on talkbass forums too.

[hacktheplanet]

I prefer an aggressive, hot tone from my bass, yet with just the right amount of funk. I usually wipe them down after practice because they can get pretty damn gross over time. The level of vigor with which I clean my strings is based on how gross my fingers smell after practice.

Tone is all about the EQ and drive. I have played through an Ampeg SVT-CL for the last year or so. The bass turned down a bit, the mid turned up, and the gain higher than the volume. It gives just the right amount of tube garbage around the edges, while preserving the overall tone. The EQ on my bass is neutral, and I typically play through the bridge pickup.

I would also disagree with the crew who likes new strings. Bass strings take quite a while to break in. During that time, you will be tuning VERY frequently because they are so fat. Additionally, new strings are waaaay too bright and metallic sounding... And expensive. Personally, I'll change my strings once every few years, but I do know a few people who have had the same strings for decades. I guess it's a preference thing.

The last few times we've recorded, I've mic'ed the cab and run direct for variety. However, I've never been satisfied with the direct recordings, so I usually just stick with the mic'ed cab. Again, it's all personal preference here.