Ableton Forum

H20nly wrote:MBPs clock in at over 2000 USD. you can get a lot of laptops for well (3 to 7 hundred USD) under that... Lenovos included - i know, i have one.

don't take my word for it though:

i see roughly a 1000 dollar difference give or take 200. ironically[?], the MBPs have weaker processors.

You're not comparing like for like, the price difference is nowhere near what you claim. When you add in the superior build quality and higher resell prices there really isn't much between the price of a Mac and a PC. Apple support is a lot better as well if you live near a store, not aware of any other brands where you can take a faulty product in to a store and have it repaired or replaced within 30 minutes.

Another win for the PC users

skatr2 wrote: You are comparing treetop completely different market types there. Like it our not, apple has the same guts as any other pc. Their"quality" relies on their pretty unibody aluminum shell...yet the insides are stool Intel and third party makers. If apple still made their processors, I could see a valid argument on their quality or product life. But at the end of the day there's all the same parts with different os running them. I personally think the os is the premium they sell. While ms charges 150 to upgrade, apple already charged its premium in initial buy and looks better when they charge 30 for their later updates.

You obviously never opened any laptop. The differences are very obvious and in clear relationship to the prices, from no name to Vaio or Lenovo. It is not about pretty from outside (though the alu body is not just about pretty) but the inside as well.
Seems like it is getting again about pc users pursuing their psychological justification of being cheap. Simply impossible that Apple users can complain, bitch about Apple, or simply find out some new info about TB adaptors, etc. No, the thread will be promptly hijacked by some frustrated for being cheap ass PC users getting on with their home made therapy against "I have Apple complex".
Apple products are overpriced and their users are brainwashed! OK? Happy now? Go play your Plywoodcasters and drive your KIAs, enjoy money you saved.

I own a mbp and after 3 years, its superior quality is going the same way as any other windows laptop I've owned for the same length of time. Buggy as hell. You compare it to owning a kia...but don't know what you speak of. Owning a bmw you pay for superior quality in the engine and components. In a Mac, you pay for pretty design because the components in a Mac touchpad aside are no different than a pc. Essentially you are paying a premium for the operating system which honestly is getting stale. and the mbp costs ate getting even higher with components semi and pro users can't use. This will probably force some people to reconsider their stance on buying a new Mac. It is me and I'm in the right spot to upgrade. They ate no longer leading innovation. Just floundering to stay on top.

Nice try macfag. You are paranoid rikhyray.

I wouldn't go that far...but the comparison doesn't make sense. BMW makes their own engines. Two people buy BMW...those who believe in the superiority of german engineering in their motors, and those who just want a status symbol. BMW engines don't go into kias...same with BMW parts. When you look at computers though, mac uses Intel processors, nVidia graphics, and the only difference is a thunderbolt port that nobody in the nearterm is supporting. So clearly the "engineering" of the apple isn't the draw (aside from OS functionality for the less computer literate)...so the only comparison that really holds true is people go to apple because it is a status symbol. Look at my pretty mac with my pretty iphone and ipad that all sync together. And its all lasting just about as long as other PCs.

You could make the BMW comparison back when apple actually MADE their own processors and hardware. But now a days its just another PC.

jonny72 wrote:

H20nly wrote:MBPs clock in at over 2000 USD. you can get a lot of laptops for well (3 to 7 hundred USD) under that... Lenovos included - i know, i have one.

don't take my word for it though:

i see roughly a 1000 dollar difference give or take 200. ironically[?], the MBPs have weaker processors.

You're not comparing like for like, the price difference is nowhere near what you claim. When you add in the superior build quality and higher resell prices there really isn't much between the price of a Mac and a PC. Apple support is a lot better as well if you live near a store, not aware of any other brands where you can take a faulty product in to a store and have it repaired or replaced within 30 minutes.

you're right, in the Apple & Lenovo links that i posted... the processors on the Macs were considerably weaker. that really isn't like for like.

you can buy an overpriced warranty on a computer at BestBuy and take it back to to have a Geek work on it. - doesn't mean i throw down the loot. if the Apple store works for you cool. my point wasn't to start a debate... rikhyray posted some information about pricing that was simply not true. i posted links to show what is true... today, in November... 2012.

Even as PC guy I used to believe that Macbook Pros had the better hardware. Unfortunately that is no longer the case imo besides aesthetics, case build quality (depending on pc model), and retina.

I just bought a custom configured Thinkpad w530 on sale a few months back and it is the best laptop ive ever owned. I did 2 months of research on laptops and considered running Windows on at Macbook Pro (not really a fan of OSX and its reduced hardware longevity support). In the end the Thinkpad beat out the Macbook on every performance related aspect. Cost wasn't necessarily a factor, but even after I maxed out my resolution to 1920x1080, upgraded my processor to a i7-3820QM, upgraded graphics to a Quadro K2000M w/ 2GB memory (which is great as a CAD user), replaced my DVD bay with a 2nd 7200 rpm HD (still waiting for prices on larger SSDs to come down), added an external DVD to the order in case I needed it, added other bells and whistles like better WLAN / backlit keyboard / larger battery, and upgraded to 32 GB of RAM (from newegg), it was still $500 give-or-take less than a Macbook Pro with lower specs and less memory.

No contest imo for a machine that meets all my daily use, audio production, CAD, and gaming needs better than that Macbook Pro would have. This laptop was literally life changing, has replaced all my needs for a desktop, and even the onboard sound is usable at decent latencies when im on the move without my audio interface. To rub salt in the wound it even has a firewire port (I hate firewire though so ill never use it). Nothing like a well informed decision based on facts and not fanboy/industry hype and bias

Donnie wrote:Even as PC guy I used to believe that Macbook Pros had the better hardware. Unfortunately that is no longer the case imo besides aesthetics, case build quality (depending on pc model), and retina.

I just bought a custom configured Thinkpad w530 on sale a few months back and it is the best laptop ive ever owned. I did 2 months of research on laptops and considered running Windows on at Macbook Pro (not really a fan of OSX and its reduced hardware longevity support). In the end the Thinkpad beat out the Macbook on every performance related aspect. Cost wasn't necessarily a factor, but even after I maxed out my resolution to 1920x1080, upgraded my processor to a i7-3820QM, upgraded graphics to a Quadro K2000M w/ 2GB memory (which is great as a CAD user), replaced my DVD bay with a 2nd 7200 rpm HD (still waiting for prices on larger SSDs to come down), added an external DVD to the order in case I needed it, added other bells and whistles like better WLAN / backlit keyboard / larger battery, and upgraded to 32 GB of RAM (from newegg), it was still $500 give-or-take less than a Macbook Pro with lower specs and less memory.

No contest imo for a machine that meets all my daily use, audio production, CAD, and gaming needs better than that Macbook Pro would have. This laptop was literally life changing, has replaced all my needs for a desktop, and even the onboard sound is usable at decent latencies when im on the move without my audio interface. To rub salt in the wound it even has a firewire port (I hate firewire though so ill never use it). Nothing like a well informed decision based on facts and not fanboy/industry hype and bias

Just out of curiosity...how much did that set you back?

H20nly wrote:

jonny72 wrote:

H20nly wrote:MBPs clock in at over 2000 USD. you can get a lot of laptops for well (3 to 7 hundred USD) under that... Lenovos included - i know, i have one.

don't take my word for it though:

i see roughly a 1000 dollar difference give or take 200. ironically[?], the MBPs have weaker processors.

You're not comparing like for like, the price difference is nowhere near what you claim. When you add in the superior build quality and higher resell prices there really isn't much between the price of a Mac and a PC. Apple support is a lot better as well if you live near a store, not aware of any other brands where you can take a faulty product in to a store and have it repaired or replaced within 30 minutes.

you're right, in the Apple & Lenovo links that i posted... the processors on the Macs were considerably weaker. that really isn't like for like.

you can buy an overpriced warranty on a computer at BestBuy and take it back to to have a Geek work on it. - doesn't mean i throw down the loot. if the Apple store works for you cool. my point wasn't to start a debate... rikhyray posted some information about pricing that was simply not true. i posted links to show what is true... today, in November... 2012.

Where are you getting a $1000 price difference from?

The only way I can get a $1000 difference is by comparing to the 15" MBP which has; a larger display (15.4" vs 14"), a faster processor (i7 vs i5), a larger hard drive (500Gb vs 320Gb) and better graphics card (additional Nvidia card). Not sure why you think the processors are weaker, the MBP's have the same or better processor as the Lenovo you linked to.

I'm not trying to start a debate either, I'm just correcting the errors and misleading claims you keep posting.

skatr2 wrote:Just out of curiosity...how much did that set you back?

After all was said and done (with 32GB of RAM from Newegg) about $2250. This was during a 20% sale on the lenovo site as well (which was planned for since it happens relatively often).

H20nly wrote: MBPs clock in at over 2000 USD. you can get a lot of laptops for well (3 to 7 hundred USD) under that... Lenovos included - i know, i have one.

don't take my word for it though:


http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/s ... US-KWG-PLA

haven't been following the thread but the cheapest MBP on that page was $1200

I paid $1300 AUD about 18 months ago for mine

I couple of years before I bought an HP for the same price and it died completely in under a year... not saying that's true for all, but we bought Win 8 because it was only $40 and my son wanted it for dual boot and frankly I would hate it if that was my only OS... I like having both though

Forge. wrote:

H20nly wrote: MBPs clock in at over 2000 USD. you can get a lot of laptops for well (3 to 7 hundred USD) under that... Lenovos included - i know, i have one.

don't take my word for it though:


http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/s ... US-KWG-PLA

haven't been following the thread but the cheapest MBP on that page was $1200

I paid $1300 AUD about 18 months ago for mine

I couple of years before I bought an HP for the same price and it died completely in under a year... not saying that's true for all, but we bought Win 8 because it was only $40 and my son wanted it for dual boot and frankly I would hate it if that was my only OS... I like having both though

Apple has to be thankful for HP. There is no such thing as an HP laptop, only HP craptops. I couldn't see even the biggest PC fanboy recommending an HP laptop over a Mac 3x the price.

Here's some food for thought.
http://forums.cnet.com/7723-27068_102-5 ... s_cid=e497

The trend is more towards the mobile market these days. Apple and PC musicians are both going to suffer. Think about it. Do you really want to buy some silly attachment to hook a guitar up to a cell phone or have a system with even CPU and RAM to run Amplitube or Guitar Rig? Small and cute are in for the ignorant.

Yeah, no thanks on HP. In the end though model is usually more important than brand when buying a PC. Mac is one of the few brands that offers consistent quality amongst various models. With PCs you need to research the model if you want quality.

I'd like to see PC fanboy. What kind of people is that? Windows logo tattoo on their arm? T-shirt? A man in a Office logo necktie? Get a life boy.