Ableton Forum

Hi,

In the past I've DJ-ed using a mixture of vinyl, ipod, laptop w/iTunes, CD player, all mixed using a traditional hardware mixer.

I'd really like to move to just using the laptop and Live, or another audio application. The problem is that while I love Live for creating music, for DJing I'm just got getting it. I can see how it would be great just mixing electronic/dance music sets, but I mix loads of genres including electronica, but a lot of indie music. And indie music, especially stuff with vocals, just sounds wrong if it's warped more than a couple of bpm off the original.

So I'd really like to use at least half my tracks unwarped. But unwarped in Live means zero control over previewing properly, looping, setting cue points. And if I use them warped, but adjust the clip bpm up to the global bpm so that they are playing at the original speed, I'm worried about the sound quality (mostly use beats mode). I want to be able to just select a clip, preview it via cue, set a cue point and hit play from cue point, and all at original tempo and not worry about warping.

I feel I'm really trying to force Live to do something that it doesn't want to.

So I had a go on Traktor LE (free with a pair of headphones). It seems a bit closer to what I want, but I can't get along with it at all really and can't get it working with any midi controller either. Much prefer Live's GUI and MIDI flexibility.

So, any top advice on how to either get my head round using Live properly with lots of original tempo stuff, or any suggestions for other DJ software I should try out...

Thanks in advance for any advice.

What kind of controller are you trying to use with Tracktor? It works great with a BCD3000 and several other DJ specific controllers. I much prefer Traktor over Live for DJing.

Live's warping just creates too many artifacts if your entire set isn't roughly the same tempo.

Well, that's the thing, I don't want to fork out for yet another controller just for DJing, so I'd like to use my UC-33e. Unfortunately, Traktor LE and the UC-33e are currently not on speaking terms with each other, so I can't really give it a serious go before seeing whether I want to splash out for the full Traktor.

Yeah, regarding the artifacts, that's exactly what I'm concerned about...

There are plenty of people that use Traktor without any kind of controller. If you're used to traditional DJing then it shouldn't be that hard to wrap your head around and I also find it more enjoyable because it's closer to traditional DJ setups. Controllers can help but it's certainly not needed. Maybe you are overthinking things.

Wouldn't be the first time...

Yeah, I kinda agree, but I don't like using a mouse to cross-fade or adjust parameters while DJing real-time. I'd much rather use a physical interface. Having said that, I think Traktor LE also has the option to use an external non-midi mixer i.e. use the soundcard's multiple outputs to send to the external mixer and crossfade there. That might be an option...

You can use Live without warping your songs.Still you can adjust Start and end of the song without warping.
I have done some mixes in the past,used only indie-alternative songs,and i also used an UC33.

Cheers - but how do you quickly preview the track you're cueing up? You can drag round the start marker, but it's a real pain to go back and forward and stop and start the clip and adjust the start marker. Basically, when switching off warped mode, you lose the essential speaker icon - and I find that a huge kick between the legs of my workflow...

You lose the start set button too, which is also a major inconvenience. I understand why - no warp markers to set the start point in a time-aligned place - but I wish Live would let me worry about that. It would be exactly the same selecting a start point on a turntable or CD player...

8O wrote:Cheers - but how do you quickly preview the track you're cueing up? You can drag round the start marker, but it's a real pain to go back and forward and stop and start the clip and adjust the start marker. Basically, when switching off warped mode, you lose the essential speaker icon - and I find that a huge kick between the legs of my workflow...

You lose the start set button too, which is also a major inconvenience. I understand why - no warp markers to set the start point in a time-aligned place - but I wish Live would let me worry about that. It would be exactly the same selecting a start point on a turntable or CD player...

I know.
Then warp your songs,but they have to be almost on the same BPM.If a song is 100BPM then you need to play another song that is 100BPM or 98BPM or 102BPM.
You also can use complex warp mode if it helps.

And therein lies one of the many problems with using Live to DJ - the indie tracks all have quite different BPM - think pleasant Kings of Convenience going into upbeat Smiths. But then the set will go on to an even faster track - I dunno, Mclusky, or summat - thereby diverging even further from a "global tempo" that was accurate a few songs ago.

And then anything warped will be 20-30 bpm off the global tempo and I'm in danger of getting artifacts. I've never had good experience using complex mode either. In fact I find it the worst for introducing artifacts. Generally use beat mode, but not convinced with this either on large bpm differences on indie tracks...

While I get the impression that Live has really been designed by musicians to use in a live context, I don't think anyone in Ableton's R&D has used it to DJ sets that range from Shirley Bassey to Autechre via Gorky's Zygotic Mynci.

And Traktor + UC-33e is still giving me grief...

Any other DJ software suggestions?

Or cunning Live usage?

IMO, if you're not warping your songs to creatively mix in additional audio elements, building songs live from loops, or synching video and lighting, there are FAR better DJing software options out there than Live.

I sometimes DJ unwarped tracks, and tap-tempo with a footswitch to keep video and lighting synched. If I didn't have sequenced video and lighting, or played Impulse percussion, or want to drop in audio, video, and lighting samples, or did quadraphonic DJing, or do interactive stuff with the crowd, I'd definitely choose a different program.

Deckadance is the shiznit bro

it's all about serato. it's insanely easy to use (yes you still have to actually beat-mix though). i know dragging turntables around is a hassle but hey at least you don't have to drag that crate of records in the club anymore and you still get that vinyl touch. i really enjoy using it. plus they just added midi features to it but i still haven't figured out what that means its capable of now.

Cheers folks. Will give the Deckadance and Serato demos a whirl tonight...

It's a shame, cos Live is agonisingly close to what I need, just not close enough. Wish it could do everything!

8O wrote:Cheers folks. Will give the Deckadance and Serato demos a whirl tonight...

It's a shame, cos Live is agonisingly close to what I need, just not close enough. Wish it could do everything!

i couldn't agree more with your sentiments for live performance purposes..

i wish they had cue points within clips GRRR *shakes fist at berlin*

...and, it's just occurred to me, Ableton will probably not step on Native Instruments' toes by making a DJ tool overlapping with Traktor. So near, yet so far...