Ableton Forum

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:54 am**

Oh yes...
The Apple audio chipsets are Crystal Audio manufactured by Cirrus Logic. I doubt the Yamaha chipset would sound ANY different even when compared on a top notch monitoring setup. It is a bummer though that we have not yet seen a superior system in Apples laptops yet...
However with the inclusion of an optical outputon the G5 we can hope that will make its way to the next generation of PowerBooks. (now wouldnt that be fun!

)

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:03 am**

Mbazzy wrote:[ QUESTION : when transferring a Livesetfrom PC to Mac with all VST directory Paths set, will Live/mac recognise eg. Supatrigga from the original Live/PC file ? ] .

I don't know from direct experience but.........

For switching I would advise you to save your sets as self contained and install and set your plugin directory before opening any live sets and you should be fine. The live set will automaticaly look for whatever plugs were used in it's creation and I imagine this would not be platform dependent. I don't see why it should be. I have two macs and transfer sets between them in this way.

If you'd like, email me a small live set, just load one loop, save selfcontained and throw a supatrigga in. Zip it up and send it and I will open it here when I get home from work.

Jimmy

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:11 am**

Good call smutek!

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:13 pm**

smutek wrote: I don't know from direct experience but.........

For switching I would advise you to save your sets as self contained and install and set your plugin directory before opening any live sets and you should be fine. The live set will automaticaly look for whatever plugs were used in it's creation and I imagine this would not be platform dependent. I don't see why it should be. I have two macs and transfer sets between them in this way.

If you'd like, email me a small live set, just load one loop, save selfcontained and throw a supatrigga in. Zip it up and send it and I will open it here when I get home from work.

Jimmy

I'll make you a little set without loops ; just one supatrigga.
I think it will probably come down how the developer of the plugin conceived his VST ID [that's what I think it is ]... and how Live reads this ...

Live apparently doesn't make a problem that you have several versions of the same plugin [eg. in different beta stages ] , so apparently it doesn't "screen" that ID, a host like Bidule on the contrary doesn't allow multiple instances of "the same" plugin ... Wonder if this has changed in Live 4.x

Next question would be , if you have the AudioUnit version of a plugin that windows has vst version off , would it recognise ?

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:24 pm**

mbazzy,

you know I'm pc through and through, so I got to say that I think you'll regret going mac. I mean, it would seem that you might actually be going down (or equal) in performance from your current pc, which seems a bit pointless--if you're going to throw down hard-earned bread for a new laptop, you should be doubling your performance or more. Unless you really need to use battery power lots of the time, centrino's aren't worth it---their major selling feature is their power management and long battery life. A P4 chip in a laptop would be your best deal for bang for buck. I bet if you looked around, you could find a toshiba P4 2.4 or higher in the same price range you are looking at, and it would smoke the mac in terms of track count and effect counts.

Ryan

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:35 pm**

[DISCLAIMER : This thread has been friendly and constructive so far , please keep it this way ... this isn't about Mac vs. Pc , but Mac AND Pc ]

Ryan,

[No pun intended

with the disclaimer]

As I said, I do realize there might be some drawbacks, but I don't agree that performance "needs" to be better than what I have now . I still think that beside the cuteness factor, the Ibook gives a lot of bang for the buck , even compared to the PC world .

Mind I'm also not necessarily looking to really "upgrade" mydesktop DAW, but going for a Live performance tool. Think in reaching a decision that plays an important role as well.

By the nature of the way I'm working I'm less influenced by the number of efx I'm using or tracks that I need.

A lot of my time goes into preparation of my rawmaterial before i take it into Live to jam it out , relatively low on efx ...

I don't use rewire either so I only have modest needs i'd say

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:53 pm**

I see what you're saying, forgot about your desktop. I guess it totally depends on how you work--if track and effect count aren't critical, and screen real estate isn't either, then I could see how the little thing could be handy, and it can power a fw drive right? also handy. good luck.

ryan

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:36 pm**

I would think about the mac

firstly - you have best of both worlds

secondly, the macs ARE better with audio (not CPU I mean audio)

I have an athlon 2200+ laptop and a G3 900 powerbook and with my firewire 410 on the G3 I can get pretty much 0ms latency (64 samples) - something to do with the firewire bus (???no idea but somethinglike that) and with the on board sound card I get really good comfortable latency too - on any PC I have never got usable latency of the windows sound card with direct x or mme - it just sucks

this means in real terms I can take the mac with just power supply and headphones anywhere and actually get some work done, on the PC I have to have sound card as well - and battery life has always been better on powerboks (not counting centrino) - so in this sense powerbooks are the only true 'portables' for musicians

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:42 pm**

forgee wrote:I would think about the mac

firstly - you have best of both worlds

secondly, the macs ARE better with audio (not CPU I mean audio)

I have an athlon 2200+ laptop and a G3 900 powerbook and with my firewire 410 on the G3 I can get pretty much 0ms latency (64 samples) - something to do with the firewire bus (???no idea but somethinglike that) and with the on board sound card I get really good comfortable latency too - on any PC I have never got usable latency of the windows sound card with direct x or mme - it just sucks

this means in real terms I can take the mac with just power supply and headphones anywhere and actually get some work done, on the PC I have to have sound card as well - and battery life has always been better on powerboks (not counting centrino) - so in this sense powerbooks are the only true 'portables' for musicians

just to add - you can do alright on older macs too - mine is a Pismo hich I paid £400 UK and I got the upgrade to 900 mhz from the states for $350 US, stuck 1gb ram in and my own hard drive and cdrw and it's a really cool machine (not literally, quite hot!)

not saying do the same, but the great thing about the Pismo is they are very easily expandable yourself - the later PBs are all inbuilt (no caddys etc) - don't discount the G3 completely, Live 4 has been optimised for mac generally and apparently this will benefit G3 as well.

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:55 pm**

Mbazzy wrote:Plugin wise coincidently all the plugins I use have AU or Mac VST equivalents [ QUESTION : when transferring a Livesetfrom PC to Mac with all VST directory Paths set, will Live/mac recognise eg. Supatrigga from the original Live/PC file ? ]

Before I got my recent mac powerbook I had Live authorized on a stationary mac and a pc laptop. Once I prepared sessions on the mac (G5 OSX) and saved "as self contained" to the PC over the local network. Since I had tweaked OSX to write the file name endings the projects opened just fine on the pc. It also worked fine the other way - saving "self contained" from the PC to the mac. But I'm afraid I can't tell you about third party plug-ins because I didn't use any in those sessions. However, I have been cross platform using Logic for many years and if a third party plug-in is installed (AU, VST, DX or whatever) it always opens up on the new platform. So I would guess that the same goes for Live.

Guess you will be checking out Numerology now, eh?

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:36 pm**

Mbazzy, I'd be intersted to know how you get on with the Ibook if you get one. I really see the advantage of running both platforms these days, pc & mac's differences in software options are gettin greater all the time and sometimes I'd love to try some of the newer mac only software like Numerology. If pc versions like Energyxt are anything to go by, there's some great programming going on on both sides and I'd love to try it all!
If I could afford it i'd definately run both platforms.
The thing is, as laptops get more powerful the prices of older models will drop in a crazy fashion, and you don't always need the power. I've made no better music with my 2.8mhz 2gig ram pc than I did with my 700mhz "old internet machine" so a second hand ibook sounds like a good idea to me.

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:52 pm**

Martyn wrote: The thing is, as laptops get more powerful the prices of older models will drop in a crazy fashion, and you don't always need the power. I've made no better music with my 2.8mhz 2gig ram pc than I did with my 700mhz "old internet machine" so a second hand ibook sounds like a good idea to me.

I agree and disagree with this - I agree that you shouldn't need to be limited by your machine, but I also think we're entering a new phase in music technology because of what the bigger cpu etc will allow - Live 4 being the obvious addition, but also all round - melodyne 2.5 will be here soon, it's rewire + vsti etc but the new version will let you sing in a melody and then play your vstis with it - I'm thinking I'll be using it and live together a fair bit, there's just so much out there and I'd hate to get left in the cold while really mindblowing cpu hog things are coming out.

But then this is exactly why I haven't finished anything in such a bloody long time.

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:10 pm**

thinking about it, if you dont already have a mac I would definitely recommend goiong down that route, even with the power drop - just go to http://www.osxaudio.com/ and check out just how much there is going on for macs - there is alot to be said for the fact that alot of musicians started on macs so stuck with right through - so it means there are alot more programs for it for audio -

I've been trying to find a specific audio app for work today and all the suggestions I've got so far have been mac only.

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:21 pm**

Anonymous wrote:hey mbazzy got a question about Live and supatrigga, how do you use supatrigga on a track, lets say track one on a drum beat but turn it down so that you're not using the full supertrigga sound, like if you only want the beat to be effected a little bit?

All the effect of suppatrigga is done in the GUI of Supptrigga in the Sliders. If you want less effect, turn them down. Using a send for Supptrigga on anthing between 100% and 05 will give you a wet/dry mix (with ghosts of the Suppatrigga beat over a the original beat. it will sound BAD.)

ANYWAY, back to the topic. MBazzy, I just got a 1.5 PB, and with the extra juice and RAM, I still hit a wall. Far under the levels of the PCs being used. I woould DEFINITELY Wait until the Demo drops, and folks can give you their experiences under the new version on a iBook. I had an iBook a few years ago and it was a true pleasure of a machine yo use and tote about. That being said, it wasa holding me back performance-wise.

Posted: **Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:57 pm**

Forge,

How the hell do you get 64 ms latency with your 410? I can't get close with a g4 800 mhz titanium...

Are you using the audio input with direct monitoring? Or mainly using the output and MIDI?

Mbazzy, it sounds like you've made the right decision... you've put some thought into identifying your personal needs and found the best fit. There's nothing more to be said except to have fun with your new computer.

Let's all keep in mind that the new version of Live will decrease the Windows CPU advantage... I doubt that OSX laptops will be anywhere near Windows laptops in terms of Live performance in the near future, but at least the discrepancy won't be as bad.

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