Eno Quote

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
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me_lindsay
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Eno Quote

Post by me_lindsay » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:56 am

Hi people,

I found this quote from Eno in Wired from back in '95 -


What people are going to be selling more of in the future is not pieces of music, but systems by which people can customize listening experiences for themselves. Change some of the parameters and see what you get. So, in that sense, musicians would be offering unfinished pieces of music - pieces of raw material, but highly evolved raw material, that has a strong flavor to it already. I can also feel something evolving on the cusp between “music,” “game,” and “demonstration” - I imagine a musical experience equivalent to watching John Conway’s computer game of Life or playing SimEarth, for example, in which you are at once thrilled by the patterns and the knowledge of how they are made and the metaphorical resonances of such a system. Such an experience falls in a nice new place - between art and science and playing. This is where I expect artists to be working more and more in the future.

It seems that these comments have come to fruition with 'systems' like Live, it makes me wonder about the sustainability of current formats which electronic music is 'performed' to an audience. Thoughts?

Robert Henke
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Post by Robert Henke » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:57 am

I guess he is unfortunately(?) wrong.
Most people expect from music that it is right there for them and that they do not need to do anything. This is why IPod shuffle is a success, it even frees the customer from choosing which song to hear next.

I am also not sure if I would want to have access to details as a listener. The funny thing is that even if the song remains unchanged, the different listening conditions chnange it sometimes dramatically. You hear the same song ten years later and think: wow, this part is cheasy, but actually, i never realised how wicked the drums are!!
This would all be much less the case if everything is algorhythmically.

I am fine with finished products, unless it is a game soundtrack that needs to react to different dramatic changes of the situation.

Rob

b0unce
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Re: Eno Quote

Post by b0unce » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:00 am

me_lindsay wrote: I can also feel something evolving on the cusp between “music,” “game,” and “demonstration”
sounds like he's describing elektroplankton
spreader of butter

LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:09 am

I still think this is the future. We are right on the cusp of it imo. I did a performance for kids with something along these lines (using jitter and paper cut-outs) this weekend and they loved it. The track really wasn't as good without the freedoms introduced by chaos and fate.

It blew my mind how easy it was to turn the jitter patch into an app (to run with max runtime). I feel like I'm close. So we must be.

b0unce
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Post by b0unce » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:12 am

close ? we've already past it....elektroplankton has officially brought this concept to the masses - or am I missing something ?

what else do you think we're waiting for ?
an interactive michael jackson concert ?
spreader of butter

EgAD
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Post by EgAD » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:13 am

Robert Henke wrote:I guess he is unfortunately(?) wrong.
Most people expect from music that it is right there for them and that they do not need to do anything. This is why IPod shuffle is a success, it even frees the customer from choosing which song to hear next.

I am also not sure if I would want to have access to details as a listener. The funny thing is that even if the song remains unchanged, the different listening conditions chnange it sometimes dramatically. You hear the same song ten years later and think: wow, this part is cheasy, but actually, i never realised how wicked the drums are!!
This would all be much less the case if everything is algorhythmically.

I am fine with finished products, unless it is a game soundtrack that needs to react to different dramatic changes of the situation.

Rob
super + 1

i'm not sure i like the way that electronic music seems to go sometimes, it's like there is some force trying to take the *music* part out of it completely, I mean if you want to be a gamer thats cool be a gamer but don't be a gamer and call yourself a songwriter or musician in the process. there's like this whole weird war on songwriting, and musicianship and if you listen closely it sounds like alot of people are talking about being on star trek than being on stage playing music, it's just really weird. right now I am probably going to buy a monome and even though i'm sure I'll get it I have to wonder ........*why*, so I can have a fuckin stepsequencer? is that what I really need i've got a bunch of controllers already. it's one thing geeking out on this patch or that patch or this controller or that controller / machine but it's an entirely different thing just being a musician studying your craft/ instruments and playing your songs.
unfortunately I don't think 20 years from now that people will be looking back on our music and saying anything, not if we don't put enough into the songs themselves.

LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:26 am

b0unce wrote:what else do you think we're waiting for ?
an interactive michael jackson concert ?
Sure. Great idea.
b0unce wrote:close ? we've already past it....elektroplankton has officially brought this concept to the masses - or am I missing something ?
Elektroplankton is an example. It's still a relatively unexplored medium.

EgAD wrote:unfortunately I don't think 20 years from now that people will be looking back on our music and saying anything, not if we don't put enough into the songs themselves.
Thanks for the reminder.

EgAD
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Post by EgAD » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:35 am

don't take it like that, i'm trying to find my way just like the rest of us, it's just that I don't want to see the day when there is such a thing as an interactive michael jackson and I think that anybody who does doesn't understand what made him great..
you know kraftwerk and devo were only pretending to be robots, they didn't actualy want to be. we are already at the sad point of saying that since we are electronic musicians we don't have to actualy perform anymore, lets not hasten the time when we finally turn everything over to code and circuitry

b0unce
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Post by b0unce » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:39 am

this thread is full of pseudo-highbrow bullshit.
eno spoke, elektroplankton delivered.

the end.
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Bagatell
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Post by Bagatell » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:45 am

Robert Henke wrote:I guess he is unfortunately(?) wrong.
-1

Eno was talking about what artists would be producing in the future. You are talking about your personal listenening preferences. There will always be a gap between the artist and the audience, especially when the artist is exploring new ground. As far as "musical systems" go electroplankton is just the tip of the iceberg, (or drop in the ocean?). What about
* Noatikl,
* ChucK
* Csound
* Max/MSP
* Pd
* SuperCollider
* KeyKit
* Bol Processor
The systems are being sold, they´re just not mainstream yet.

LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:48 am

EgAD wrote:you know kraftwerk and devo were only pretending to be robots, they didn't actualy want to be. we are already at the sad point of saying that since we are electronic musicians we don't have to actualy perform anymore, lets not hasten the time when we finally turn everything over to code and circuitry
I think there is room in between performance and installation/implementation/ignition of hardware for exploration. It is important that we remember that this output can be of high quality. I've got some more ideas on this I would rather do than share atm. Thanks again, EgAD, specifically for that line. :)

Robert Henke
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Post by Robert Henke » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:49 am

it was not clear from that quote if Eno meant something in the lines of a finished product or not. As much as I enjoy concepts, that involve user interaction, I still believe the majority of music loves just want to press play . if at all.

Robert

b0unce
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Re: Eno Quote

Post by b0unce » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:57 am

Robert Henke wrote:it was not clear from that quote if Eno meant something in the lines of a finished product or not.
Eno wrote:
What people are going to be selling more of in the future is not pieces of music, but systems by which people can customize listening experiences for themselves.
seems clear enough to me

:roll:



of course, the notion of selling unfinished products might not be alien to you...
Last edited by b0unce on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:59 am

Robert Henke wrote:it was not clear from that quote if Eno meant something in the lines of a finished product or not. As much as I enjoy concepts, that involve user interaction, I still believe the majority of music loves just want to press play . if at all.

Robert
I think you're right, and that sometimes enthusiasts lose sight of this. I have noticed that the world of hip hop does have some working examples of the opposite opinion. I wonder how many MPC's are sold each year. Hip-hop culture has proven through various means of technology that sometimes the audience does want some control.

Robert Henke
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Post by Robert Henke » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:03 am

Well, if this is the case, I am absolutely fine with it! I just think it is statistically a minority. I read some absurd figures about flickr. It might be hard to believe, but most of the subscribers do not put up any photos by themselfes. This is just not obvious, since you never come accross them while browsing...

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