Live causing Digital Performer 4.1 to crash

utm · Post by **utm** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:56 am

I've been doing a bunch of work lately with Live and DP 4.1 and I've noticed a tendency for DP to freeze and unexpectedly quit sometimes when I hit the Play button or move the Playback Start Position within Live while the programs are playing. It never happens when I hit Play within DP. I'm not sure if it's a memory thing or not. I have a single processor Mac G4/500 with 760 MB RAM, latest versions of Live and DP, OS 10.2.6. In DP, I have had anywhere from 1 aux track to several stereo and mono audio tracks, aux tracks and MIDI. Live may have 3-4 stereo & mono tracks. Fortunately Live doesn't crash but it get very sad when its ReWire host vanishes.

PS: I love Live.

utm · Post by **utm** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:06 pm

Even with DP 4.11 and Live 3 in Panther I still have the same host crashing problem. Today it happened with a blank DP document and a blank Live set.

I started DP - used a custom template I made with three empty MIDI tracks and added an Aux track which I assigned to Live's main out. Then I launched Live. By the time it finished initializing, DP had crashed and Live warned me that it detected a problem with the Rewire host application. I had to force quit it to resume... This is similar to the problem I described above with the exception that in this case I had no data in either document yet and I wasn't trying to use the transport controls to play the sequence in either application.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:42 am

Hi,

I can confirm that with DP4.11 (I was running it under 10.2.

- DP just faded away.

Have you tried to alter the buffer settings in 4.1 - I do not get crashes under 4.1 but with 512 I got overload which went away lowering the buffers to 256.

No big help - sorry.
Steff

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:43 am

Bastard board - that was now smilie - that was MacOSX 10.2.8!

Sorry for that!

s.balm · Post by **s.balm** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 1:02 pm

Hello,

utm, can you tell me what audio interfaces you are using?

You may also want to send us a mail support@ableton.com

Best,

utm · Post by **utm** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:05 pm

Hi.

Thanks for responding, I will continue this through email if you wish but here's my setup:

G4/500 with MOTU PCI-324 and 2408 Mk II.
Digital Performer 4.1 and 4.11
Live 2.5 and 3.0
Mac OS 10.2.8 & 10.3

In DP, I set the Host Buffer Size to 256, 512 & 1024 with a Multiplier of 1. All seemed to have the same frequency of crashes. I initially thought it was because of overly complex sequences (for my 500 MHz machine) but it seems that can just as easily crash with empty sequences. Right this second, my settings were 1024 but I just reset them to 256 for the hell of it. Both programs are really sluggish.

As I said, I even started with a fresh new DP file and tried to launch Live and it crashed DP. That's never happened previously. I was able to create a new DP/Live set on Saturday 10/25/03 after I upgraded The OS, Live and DP to the latest versions without problem* but I could not do it by Monday. I have some older DP sequences that use Live rhythm tracks which I can open and play fine even though both have roughly the same parameters. Things seem to be stable now but moving very slowly...

My workaround has been to simply render the Live stuff and import it to DP but I would like to get back to real-time composing...

* Just a note: even though I was able to record and sync and work, I had really slow response from both apps and I had several "hiccups" of MIDI data - notes would stop suddenly while playing the burst out again a few seconds later. DP also reported a few times that my disk may be too slow which hasn't been a problem recently.

s.balm · Post by **s.balm** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:44 pm

utm,

The sluggish behavior and hard disk errors are a result of the buffer size being too low for the amount of processing going on. The lower the buffer size, the more CPU power it takes to keep up. The performance window in DP(Studio menu) can give you a good idea of what is happening with your buffers and processor. Please try setting your buffer to 1024 again and open one of the files giving you a problem. After looking at the DP performance window, open Live and check the performance window again.

You may want to repair permissions from the Disk Utility in OS X.
Also be sure that you have the latest PCI drivers that were posted in the Panther compatibility section of the MOTU website, they note compatibility for 10.2.7 and later.

If none of this helps please send us a mail support@ableton.com

Best,

utm · Post by **utm** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:01 pm

Thanks, s.balm.

I keep the Performance meter up all the time and it seems kinda low but I get spikes whenever I open a file in either app or launch Live, a plug-in, etc...

I usually work with the buffers between 512 or 1024 unless I'm softsynthing and then i lower it to 256 to reduce latency. Things seem to have just come to a head lateley so that's why I wa seeking help. I'll keep fooling with it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 8:38 am

Hello again,

well, did anyone report this to MOTU support - I do not think it is a LIVE problem (as Live works great for me with 4.1 and Cubase).

I am running built in audio currently - so no special drivers.

Yes, buffer settings are important, but DP4.1 did bring up alerts and did not vanish.

I am running an 700MHz iBook, OSX10.2.8
MIDI is PCR50 currently
DP 4.1, Live 3, Reasons 2.5

Do repair permissions and stuff regularly.

Best,
Steff

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 8:44 am

>>The sluggish behavior and hard disk errors are a result of the buffer size being too low for the amount of processing going on. The lower the buffer size, the more CPU power it takes to keep up. The performance window in DP(Studio menu) can give you a good idea of what is happening with your buffers and processor.>>

Well, I am running an iBook - there is this powerbook bug thing with DP - have not really followed this thread. I get better behavior with 256 than with 512. Do not ask me why but it is that way. I am running currently with 256 - well perhaps with 1024 would be better - but I feel currently comfortable. I think wit DP one should be careful with those statements, that higher buffer settings are better. (Again, would be logical, but not everything is logical).

utm · Post by **utm** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:08 pm

I sent a message to MOTU and posted on DP's Unicornation board about it... I'll let you know if I hear anything useful. Thanks to everyone who responded!