Ableton & ProTools Stupid Question

Sebastian · Post by **Sebastian** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:46 am

Say I make a good home demo of my songs on Ableton. Then I show it to a porducer who likes it and wants to add his thing but only uses Pro Tools.....

what would be the deal? what would we have to do?

thanks

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:24 am

your best bet is to bounce down the individual tracks, so he can import them.. Label them as best as possible, and maybe even try to group them into sections (i.e. perc, bass, pads, fx, etc..)... it'll be quicker for him to organize.. also, unless he's using HD or TDM with a badass machine, he'll have to bounce down the submixes to hear all the parts simultaneously.. so, the better you organize it for him, the faster he'll be able to import, submix, and remix..

the quickest way to do this is using this technique...

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ols+render

good luck

Sebastian · Post by **Sebastian** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:15 am

but the Pro Tools guy will have to re arrange the different bounced tracks?

is there no way for him to just "open" my song with all tracls separate?

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:51 am

but the Pro Tools guy will have to re arrange the different bounced tracks?

is there no way for him to just "open" my song with all tracls separate?

No. He doesn't have Live (i'm assuming, because you said he only uses PT), so you can't rewire everything in. You have to bounce each individual track down, so that he can import them. Then, once he imports all the tracks, he can remix them. There really isn't any other way to do it.

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:44 am

I'd need mo' info.....

do you have a protools version?

are you saying you have the fx/mix/etc done in live and want to recreate that in a shippable protools format?

qmanvox · Post by **qmanvox** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:21 pm

I am not 100% sure on this but I seem to have seen Pro Tools has Ableton Lite version as part of the package these days. I guess dependant on what version of Pro Tools he has.

later

Q

Sebastian · Post by **Sebastian** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:40 pm

i dont have Pro Tools. I was thiking about just switching to Pro Tools so that when Im done with my demo, some of the parts I recorded dont have to be re-recorded and rather just be "worked on" or doctored. But of course the investment would be hefty.

glu · Post by **glu** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:22 pm

In my opinion, going to Pro Tools from Live just seems retarded. Live is kick ass. All you have to do ( and of course it may take forever) is bounce each track, open in pro tools, you don't have to switch programs just for that! This seems like the way to do it. The engineer doesn't have to "rearrange" any of your tracks. If you have them l;abeled, all he should have to do is open them in pro tools, based on the names you gave them. Seems rather easy, just a little tedius for your part... his part shouldn't take but 5 minutes at the most...

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:25 pm

In my opinion, going to Pro Tools from Live just seems retarded. Live is kick ass.

i appreciate you having an opinion, but that opinion is definitely unfounded. Soundquality wise, Live just doesn't compare.. ask any of the guys here that bounce to any other program for mastering.... Live sound quality just doesn't cut it. Not yet, at least.

Sebastian · Post by **Sebastian** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:46 pm

one more question Im not clear on in this scenario: when the Pro Tools opens my bounced and well labeled tracks I dont understand how he or the Pro Tools program will know measure or time wise where the track is supposed to be placed...........?

pieter · Post by **pieter** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:49 pm

interesting... i'm thinking about mixing my first remix in live. i have protools too. is the sound quality that much different? (i am talking about protools LE)

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:00 pm

You'll have to record between the loop punch in-out points, assuming that the in is the start and the out is the end; if you bounce, you should record each track, from start to finish, regardless of empty space. I would suggest employing creative submixing techniques, so that you don't have to record empty space as much as possible, but try not to overlap samples (through the submix) unless you want to layer those samples intentionally. This will give your partner the opportunity to edit each sample individually. Once you partner imports them in, it'll be easy for him to align everything this, and he can remove empty space through the "Remove Silence" command in PT. This will be the quickest way, but will require the most drive space. If you have a large project (mine usually hover around 1gb (24/48) after bounce before I import into PT; you'll probably have to bring over an external HD, or burn to dvd, or multiple cds, depending on what samplerate you're recording at)

The other way to do it would be to record each tracks in and out point on major bar lines, and note them for each track in a text document or spreadsheet. So, if you have a sample that doesn't start until 17.2.4 and ends at 19.3.3, i would suggest looping from 17-20, and marking that down. Obviously, this way is more cumbersome and prone to error, but it saves alot of space. You're better off doing it the first way i described.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:33 pm

interesting... i'm thinking about mixing my first remix in live. i have protools too. is the sound quality that much different? (i am talking about protools LE)

What i do is: complete as much as i can of the project before i think i'm ready to mix and master. Some mixing is done in Live, but it's light and based on each sample, usually in the clips window. As soon as i'm ready to submix and master, i open up my PT Template, that's already basicly configured for Live rewire.. basic submixing groups are already setup, with about 5 initial tracks per group setup, with aux tracks already assigned to generic rewire channels. I then start bring in every track from live rewired. I start with the kick to a mono aux in the PT Kick Group, then mono bass (sometimes stereo) to the aux in the PT Bass Group, then each perc track to the adjacents perc aux's in the PT Perc Group.. etc, for Pads, FX...

I bounce each group submix down as i go, so i can disable the group, and use the submix (it's lighter on the cpu, and don't run out of power as often, which you inevitably will) to listen to the entire track as i bring in the rest of the rewire groups.

This is simple (if not a tad cumbersome) and effective. Now, alot of reponses you'll see to this post will probably.... WHY? Why go through the trouble.... that sounds awfully complicated.

In fact, it's the opposite. It simplifies things tremendously for me, already having a PT template track for rewire. It'll take me about an hour to go through and bring in every rewire track... so, about 40- 65 tracks, when you only have 64 rewire channels (32 in stereo), i'll have to do some creative submixing using rewire channels (like send several effects that don't overlap to PT FX Aux1, and then PT FX Aux2). But, i haven't run out of channels yet, or put myself in a hugely awkward position. Once i bring every in, i work by submix groups. And, once i've completed this stage, which really doesn't take that long, i have these advantages...

1) The biggest reason is Live's submixing bus sux ASSSSS. Bigtime. Makes tracks sound thin as shit. It also has alot to do with #2

2) Way better Metering!!!!! Metering in Ableton sux donkey dick. Fucking hard to keep track of headroom in the mixing and mastering stage.

3) Grouping... !!!!! Really easy to organize everything, which is important for #4. Try figuring out where the hell you are when you have 50 - 70 tracks.. take alot of creativity with Ableton's small ass window, and no grouping capabilities. (Modularity is better for mixing and conceptualizing the mix).

4) Mixing!!! I have a console, however you don't need it necessarily... But PT's mixing capabilities are 10 times better then Lives... It's got envelope functions, and a shitload of other mixing capabilites... and it's more precise

To summerize, Ableton's midi capabilites are awesome. I mostly use ableton because it allows me the freedom to work on my laptop or desktop, using the same exact setup (different controllers setup with the exact same midi cc's) and instruments.. so, i can be creative anywhere. But, when i want to go the extra mile and make the track sound pristine, and pro,

I sit at my desktop, import to PT, and bang the sound quality into submission. I really don't think with the way Live's DAW functions are setup, that i want to make it my main DAW. It wasn't designed for that. It was originally designed for composition for Live events. Not mastering, not a full fledged DAW. Those are add-ons. And, i think it'll take a while before Live gets to that point. It'll take alot for me to want to use Live for that. I don't think it's ready, and I don't think it'll be ready by Live 6.

Also, as long as PT is the standard, i feel more comfortable using it, and just sending my finished product to the label in a PT file. It's simpler for them, and it's simpler for me. I've got all my processes down, and it doesn't take that much more time for me to get the best sound quality i can out of my tracks.

pieter · Post by **pieter** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:41 am

thanks man, it all makes sense. it's true - protools has advantages... grouping etcetera.

but when i'm composing, i'm mixing at the same time. you know, sometimes you have ideas, and sometimes you run out of them for a moment, and then i do some volume tweeking and EQing to do something useful until i'm creative again. at the end (when the track is made), the mix is already there. or more or less.

but the template idea sounds good. first try will be time-consuming though - will try it when i have no deadline.

glu · Post by **glu** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:57 am

stinky wrote:
In my opinion, going to Pro Tools from Live just seems retarded. Live is kick ass.
i appreciate you having an opinion, but that opinion is definitely unfounded. Soundquality wise, Live just doesn't compare.. ask any of the guys here that bounce to any other program for mastering.... Live sound quality just doesn't cut it. Not yet, at least.

Oh shit, that didn't come out right, sorry

I meant for music writing... I would feel retarded trying to write music
in PT after using Live. That's what I meant. 4 hours sleep sucks!
thanks for keeping me in check yo! PT sounds great, but feels cold after getting acclimated with Live during the creative process.