Looping with Live

Share your favorite Ableton Live tips, tricks, and techniques.
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pheecoy
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Looping with Live

Post by pheecoy » Wed May 17, 2006 9:56 am

i've seen kid beyond's videos of him doing his set and explaining his Live setup. does anyone have an idea or the knowledge of how his live setup works because isn't it quite hard to record and playback in time? i know he uses a midi translator and ground control midi pedals but thats all i know. i'd like to know how you keep it in time with the other tracks..thanks
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Elec
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Post by Elec » Wed May 17, 2006 12:24 pm

hi,´
I´ve seen Kid Beyond live in Berlin and I can tell you:
it´s not so difficult as you think.
He prepared every Ableton Project together with Bome´s Midi Translator (now he uses Midi-Pipe, because of switching to Mac).
Every Button of his foot controller is programmed with diiferent keystrokes.
But how to keep in time?
He doesn´t use Live´s metronome, he uses a recorded sample of
4th or 8th beat box hi hat´s to start and record to this metronome the first clip. The metronome doesn´t stop, because with a lot of recorded samples you won´t hear it anymore.
I will try to explain his work progress:
1. First start ableton and the recorded metronome.
2. Push the first button of your MFC and record the first clip. (Bass Line)
3. Push the 2nd button (it starts the first clip and records the 2nd) (drums)
4. Push the 3rd button....(this starts the 2nd clip and record 3rd....)

He arranges his project with configuring the buttons, so (as an example) the 4th button keeps clip 1 and 2 going on and stops the 3rd clip. Additional he uses FX like EQs or Compressors in his slots and record 2 clips at the same time to fatten his mix.

i hope I could help you
Elec

pheecoy
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Looping with Live

Post by pheecoy » Wed May 17, 2006 4:24 pm

thanks elec that gave me some ideas... but what boggles me is how he keeps it in time in such a way that the clip is precisely cut and it doesnt mess the song up... is there a way that live helps to accomplish such a task? thanks

pheecoy
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Elec
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Post by Elec » Wed May 17, 2006 6:12 pm

That is one of the best features in live compared to looping pedals like Boss DD-6, Akai or any other.

On top in Live there are the transport functions:
follow song, position, play, stop, record, ovr, back to arrangement and quantize menu (from left)
To start and cut the loops perfect use the quantize menu and make settings like 1 bar, 2 bar or any other.
So when you push your midi button or key-stroke, the clip will start or record or... on the next 1 of the next bar (with 1bar quantize); when you want to stop it or play or... push your button and it will be perfectly cut and will never run out of your time.
Elec

pheecoy
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Post by pheecoy » Wed May 17, 2006 6:36 pm

ive tried doing it before and i'd say its easier said than done... perhaps its in the way i programmed the live set?
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Michael-SW
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Post by Michael-SW » Wed May 17, 2006 6:56 pm

No, the clips will always start and stop recording perfectly on your quantize setting. The trick is to push stop before the end of the bar (or whatever division you use). Say you have a 4 bar quantize setting and want to record a 4 bar clip. You can then just push start and then stop directly after.


It is of course another thing to stay in sync yourself... :D

quandry
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Post by quandry » Wed May 17, 2006 7:00 pm

Elec wrote:That is one of the best features in live compared to looping pedals like Boss DD-6, Akai or any other.

On top in Live there are the transport functions:
follow song, position, play, stop, record, ovr, back to arrangement and quantize menu (from left)
To start and cut the loops perfect use the quantize menu and make settings like 1 bar, 2 bar or any other.
So when you push your midi button or key-stroke, the clip will start or record or... on the next 1 of the next bar (with 1bar quantize); when you want to stop it or play or... push your button and it will be perfectly cut and will never run out of your time.
Elec
Kid Beyond goes a bit "beyond" what is necessary to loop in live because of the way he wants to work, and because he doesn't want to touch the computer live. I do live looping in one of my bands using Live. Elec is right on point--use the session view, set quantize to bar, assign midi cc values from your midi footboard to clip slots, hit the pedal anytime during a measure, and it will start (or stop-and-loop) the recording on the next "1". This is all predicated on using headphones with a click, and playing to the click, and changing the tempo as need be for each song. To try to use live as a looping pedal without the click is as tricky, if not trickier than looping with pedals like the Boss RC-20--your pedal presses at the start and end of the loop must be exactingly precise, and your playing needs to be very tempo steady--this is challenging and a bit of a nightmare on stage to have to be so precise across the board. I came into using Live for looping years ago because I was fed up with the limitations of hardware looping pedals. The metronome on headphone, the quantize set to 1 bar, and the ability to have each loop on a seperated channel (allowing seperate control of vol., pan, effects, crossfader is what makes Live head and shoulders about hardware loopers.
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pheecoy
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Post by pheecoy » Wed May 17, 2006 7:49 pm

thanks for your help guys... but what i don't want to touch my notebook while playing? what will be the key points that i should do in order for me to control the whole session :arrow: "Kid Beyond" style with the MFC alone :?: ... thank you for being patient with me ...
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quandry
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Post by quandry » Wed May 17, 2006 9:35 pm

there's a video on google video (and this site too), as well as an interview or post by kid beyond on this site describing his workflow. basically he uses his MFC pedals to do multiple things at one time, in conjuction with midi ox and bomes midi translator. midi ox creates virtual midi ports on your computer (pc only), so that you can use one hardware midi input to control multiple apps. This is necessary to route your midi into Bome's Midi Translator, which translates midi commands into qwerty keystrokes, which can in turn control live. I think you could get away with not using ox and bomes and just use multiple midi commands from each MFC pedal (like my fcb 1010).

BUT if you ever make mistakes when live looping (I sure do!), there are two caveats--Live 3 was the last version of Live with true "midi select on launch". This means that everytime you hit a foot pedal to record a loop, that clip is selected and if you hit "delete", the clip will be deleted. Live 4 removed this feature, and in version 5, it is partially reinstated, but the clip grid has to be in "focus", which either requires mouse usage or serious bomes workarounds with alt-arrow qwerty key combos--not fun, waste of pedals. Reguardless, if you do make mistakes, you'll need ox and bomes to midi map a foot pedal to act as the delete key, and if you like your life easy, you'll be stuck using 3 like me. Apparently Kid uses 5 and doesn't feel the need to have the safety net of deleting flubbed clips, I'm not that ballsy.

ryan
Dell Studio XPS 8100 Windows 7 64-bit, 10 GB RAM. RME Multiface, Avalon U5 & M5, Distressor, Filter Factory, UC33e, BCR-2000, FCB1010, K-Station, Hr 824 & H120 sub, EZ Bus, V-Drums, DrumKat EZ, basses, guitars, pedals... http://www.ryan-hughes.net

BobSpace
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Post by BobSpace » Wed May 17, 2006 11:05 pm

PB 15"-Mbox2-002r-Command|8
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nolus
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Post by nolus » Thu May 18, 2006 8:03 pm

"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"

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