How to use sends properly...

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
Nixon
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How to use sends properly...

Post by Nixon » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:13 pm

Hey guys.

I'm trying to figure out how best to use the sends in Live 5, but i'm having diffuculties creating a good setup. What I basically want when playing live, is choosing an effect on a return channel and using it on the fly. When I do this I end up with a double signal of the same track > 1 from the original track, and 1 from the return channel, going to the master as well. One solution of course, could be to route the song to sends only, but then I have to choose in advance what kind of effect I want to use. I don't want this though, I want to choose an effect when the track is already playing...
I feel quite stupid not figuring this out, can someone help me out here?

Regards,

Nick

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:19 pm

effects on sends should be 100%, 0% dry. So any all-wet effect is cool, no need for any tricky routing.
mbp 2.66, osx 10.6.8, 8GB ram.

Nixon
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Post by Nixon » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:24 pm

but when an effect in a return channel is set to 100 percent wet, you would still end up with 2 signals right? cause the original audio/midi track still goes to the master, as well as the output from the return channel, so what you would end up with is one channel without effect and one fully effected...wich is double. Or am I not getting something here? :)

peeddrroo
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Post by peeddrroo » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:30 pm

so what you want to do is not use the effect as an aux, but as an insert.

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:33 pm

Nixon, you're absolutely right, you want two signals. One fully reverbed for instance, and one dry - then you use the send knob from the original track to adjust the level of the send.
mbp 2.66, osx 10.6.8, 8GB ram.

Nixon
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Post by Nixon » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:41 pm

what's an insert peedrooo??

Nixon
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Post by Nixon » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:44 pm

But, Machinate, when you turn the send open all the way, you would still hear the original track without effect as well, right? Turning open the send to the return channel would only create an extra layer of sound, but with an effect.

thanks for the trouble man!

Nick

Machinate
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Post by Machinate » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:47 pm

there are two types of effects - those, that work on sends, and those that don't... Usually it's the time-based effects that like being on sends - reverb, delay, phaser, chorus, flanger.

If it's a filter or similar, and you don't want to hear the original track, then the easiest way of doing it is simply dropping the effect directly on the track you want to effect.

-and if you drop the effect directly on the track, then you *insert* the effect instead of *send*ing to it.... ;)
mbp 2.66, osx 10.6.8, 8GB ram.

Nixon
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Post by Nixon » Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:51 pm

aaaaahhhh, then I fully understand, thanks guys! strange though it isn't possible to filter away a channel completely using a send....or using onther effects this way!

greets

Nick

Nixon
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Post by Nixon » Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:08 pm

what sucks though: when I spontaniously decide to use a beat repeat on one of my 8 channels, with wich I want to screw up the sound so bad the original round is unrecognizable, I am forced to preassign a beat repeat (or any other effect doing this) to each channel with wich I may be tempted to do this!!! I already use 2 midi controllers, and that should be enough!

Hedroom
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Post by Hedroom » Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:21 pm

No you don't!

You can route all channels where you may want to use beat repeat into another channel (bus) and put one single beat repeat on this.

Nixon
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Post by Nixon » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:22 pm

Yes but then it would always use the the effect on all channels routed this way... What I would like the most is choosing a channel on the fly, that means 1, mayby 2 channels, to use the effect on (and not hearing the original track of course). With your technique I can't use my mdi controller to choose the channels I wan't to use, because routing can't be midi-assigned...

Michael-SW
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Post by Michael-SW » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:25 pm

Using sends the usual way, you can never get a signal more than 50% wet.

However, if you set the send up as Pre Fader and decrease the volume on the original track while turning up the send knob you can get 100% wet. But as a trade off you need to turn two knobs instead of one.

Nixon
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Post by Nixon » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:41 pm

That's true Michael...that's exactley the way i've been doing it so far...but then i'm worrying about volume levels all the time... I don't understand why sends work like this> there should be a way to do this besides the way in wich they work right now. Even with my djm-600 I can use my effects choosing a channel on the fly and slowly turning in the effect, making the original sound change in the effected sound!!!
I can think of a way to do it, though. It could be done by changing the midi CC's with program's in my midi-controller (the CC's for the beat repeat on each channel, assigned under 3 knobs on my controller (=2 parameters of beat repeat and on/off), keeping all other knobs assigned the same way. Changing the program shifts these knobs to the effect (beat repeat in this example) on another channel. OW, and when I want to do this with multiple effects, on different channels, I may need more than one program at the time in my controller, and I don't know any controller that has 2 seperate program's on the market (or 3....stop Nick it's getting bullshitty!!!) sounds like a lot of work for such a simple problem...!! :!: :?

vip32
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Post by vip32 » Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:14 pm

interesting, i do it like michael describes. with 2 knobs you can alter the volume of the original channel and the send, like blending the 2 channels

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