OSX Optimization+Solution&Warning for Audio-Dropouts

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sniffio
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:21 pm

OSX Optimization+Solution&Warning for Audio-Dropouts

Post by sniffio » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:47 pm

:D
Hi guys, I think we finally found out the solution.
No, it is not a perfect one but still there is a high possibilites to prevent that random-audio-dropouts on OSX, especially for the Powerbook user.

Thanks for many users @ this forum who helped to solve this problem.
I think we now know where the problem is coming from. It is coming from the "OSX Update".

After spending the entire two days figuring out what was going on, I decided to do everything from the begining.
Install the OSX and so on.
After spending those two days for precausious repairing, everything was perfectly solved. No audio-dropouts on my Live4.
Yes, there was a huge :D on my face.

BUT, here is something you guys should be "AWARE" of.
After carefully checking everything out, spending time and my energy, and finally decided to finish my work, I noticed there was a "OS 10.3.6 update".
In my mind, it said "Oh man, wait until I get my hands on those updates. Finally, everything would be perfect."
But that was not a very good idea.
After I installed the update, everything was doomed.
That random-audio-dropout figured the way to give birth to itself, AGAIN.

No, there was no :D on my face anymore.
Everything was so perfect just before that special download.
After that, there was that infamous random-audio-dropouts everytime I start my Live4.
No matter how I would repair it, or how I would do whatever I can do, I wasn't able to fix it.
This all happened right after the update.
Before that, I had my Live4 tested for pretty long hours, and there was no sign of trouble.
Two days of my hard work was blown away with that one press of the button.

But here is the GOOD NEWS.
Now, I know for quite sure that the OSX update is causing this trouble, and also I saved the System Log in my document files.
It does say "Audio error -."
I will send it to Ableton after this.
I really hope it will give them somekind of clue for this matter.

I will also post the how-to for fixing this matter in details.
So if you are having this same problem, especially Powerbook users with other problems such as random-crashing, PLZ take a look.

And thank you for those who helped me out with the matter.
This wouldn't happened if it wasn't for you guys.
Thank you so much.
You saved the music.
Last edited by sniffio on Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:08 pm, edited 5 times in total.

ulidjan
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:46 am

Post by ulidjan » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:08 pm

it has nothing to do with the osx update.
i had this problem with 10.3.5 and
live 4.04

i downgraded to live 4.3 again &
i had no problems anymore
(few days of testing)

so i think this is a 4.04 issue.

ableton is working on it.

best

u
computer: laptop powerbook g4, 667Mhz, 768 MB
os: osx 10.3.5
Live version: Live 4.1
Native Instruments Komplete 2
soundcard: motu 828mk2
midi-interface: uc 33 / motu 828mk2
mikrokorg
e-guitar & various analog guitar fx boxes

sniffio
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:21 pm

optimize your OSX for DAW. Ver 1.0.5

Post by sniffio » Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:46 pm

And this is the best optimization trick for DAW that i know of so far.

OK, get ready.
And good luck !

+Before you start, you can make a backup CD,DVD, or download and save all the latest updates and application's dmg files into your external HDD. In this way, you wouldn't have to do all the downloading which is mentioned below, and it can save you alot of time. (For Apple's original applications and updates, i downloaded after installing the OSX since they are easy to do so, and has special optimization during the installation. )

+You should also save your preference files & folders for your recent setup.
This is usually located in the User>Library>Preferences.
If you do not care, please start and creat them from the scrach.

+also, PLZ make a backup for all of your plugins.
mac HD>Library>Audio>Plugins>VST & Components

OKAY LET'S START

+ Erase your OSX. Use the OSX disk1 to erase it. Custimize to "Write Zero"

+ Install the OSX, but do a "custom install." Select only the essential & the BFD(?BSD maybe)

+i dunno which country you are in, but I highly recommend to install the OS in US English mode in everyway. It's lighter and it's better.

+ Now, whenever you install something from this point, make sure you use the Disk Utility to repair the permissions and varfying it. If you want to be precaucious, use the OSX disk1 and do Repair permissions, verify it, repair disk, verify disk. Why not, do that repair permissions more than once if you like. This is going to take a lot of your time, and it's going to be a pain in the _ss, but it's worth it. Trust me. After you installed the OSX, repair it using the OSX dick1. The disk utility on the disk 1 does a deeper job then the application in the HDD.
* When selecting your HDD, please chose the icon below. I have "Toshiba 80GB" and has the same icon below with the name "mac HD". You should repair the below one, in my case "mac HD". Repair both if you have the time. The repairing didn't qualify when I kept repairing on the icon "Toshiba". I found this out when I chose the "mac HD" and the words said "one item got fixed" in a red letters. This didn't happen when I chose the upper one.
This happen recently, and I wish I knew this earlier.

+ By the way you can Repair your external HDD with the OSX disk1. It really works great. Why not erase the whole thing and repair & varify it couple of times. You can't be too carful. (I would use the zero method. Faster & Better recording. Mentioned in tech support with Logic Pro7)

+ Install the latest update for the OSX. BUT MAKE SURE IT'S SAFE.
I recommened the combined version for the update, rather than the software update.
I cannot recommend the 10.3.7.
I'm back to 10.3.5, and having a great time at present.
Repair it. Use the OSX disk1 for the task.

+ Install the latest Java. Repair it.

+ Install the latest Quick time pro. Repair it.

+ Install the Latest Itunes. Repair it.

+ Restart the OSX but make sure nothing is plugged to the computer. Don't plug nothing untill you are going to actually use it.

+ Go to HD>Library>Audio>Plugins>HAL and delete or remove the "Isightplug-in." This will run whenever something is plugged into your USB, FIREWIRE port. Good chance it can annoy your audio flow.

+ Download the latest "Stuffit" to use the Stuffit Expander. Repair it.

+ Download & Install the latest "Diablotin." Disable the fonts. Will post the links that includes the details about this. If you don't like to do this, it is not that important, but it will save you CPU & RAM. Repair it.
link:http://s.sudre.free.fr/Software/Diablotin.html

+ Download & Install the latest "Monolingual." Delete all the launguages you are not going to use. This is same as Diablotin. It saves your CPU & RAM. You don't have to do it if you don't want to. Repair it.
link:http://monolingual.sourceforge.net/

+ Download & Install the latest "ONYX." Disable all the animation stuff, custmize your dock to "scale effect", make Saffari to "Fast", custmize whatever you want to.After that, go to "Clean." Deleate logs&Virtual-temporary memories and choose "optimize completely" if you can. This is same as Diablotin. No need to do this if you don't like to.
Then go to "Automation" and restart.
Repair it.
link:http://www.titanium.free.fr/english.html

+ Use the OSX disk1&2 to install the applications such as IDVD and stuff.
If you are not willing to use the Classic environment, custom install by unchecking the Classic. Repair it.

+ You can download ical from the Apple's site. Repair it. And make sure you go to the preference menu of the ical and check on the box that allows you to disarm the alarm function.

+ Now, install the latest Drivers for your Audio/Midi interfaces. Before that, if you own an EXT HDD, plug it, and make sure that infamous "ISIGHT plugin" is not there in the HAL folder. It can be installed again since the HDD are using the OSX FIREWIRE driver. Mine was there again when the HDD was plugged (I think). Delete it & repair it. Then, install your latest drivers. After that, repair & varify it using the OSX disk1.

:arrow: +go to app/utilitles/AudioMidiapp and click on the Audio tab. There is a box which saids "Priorities-", click on the box and chose your interface's driver. Leave the rest to "Built-in". This will help.

+ We're all most there. Take a break. You need one.

+ Before we give birth to Ableton Live4, we need to make sure the parent computer is safe and prepared for the task. Do the following to optimize your DAW environment for sure. I will post as much as I can remember.

+ Go to System Preference, disable & uncheck everything you don't use.

+ Dock:minimize to very small, use scale effect, no animation.
You can do this in ONYX.

+ Energy:custom it to Highest performance, never-sleep, display sleep to hour.

+ Network:creat a location which has no network methods at all. Creat another for your internet such and such. I have three. "DAW" which has no methods,"Office" for my ethernet network only,"Auto" for all the methods possible when I travel. Yes, when it's music time, select for "DAW"

+ Shareing-Uncheck the methods you don't use.

+ Appearence-check "Go to here", "Together Down"

+ Universal-Zooming should be ON.

+ ical: check on the preference that saids, alarm off.

+ichat: don't use them. Uncheck whatever.

+software update: Set it to "update" manually.

+Itunes: Radio off (i don't do this)

+itunes:delete the "itunes helper" from the startup app within your account. If you want to completely delete it, go to itunes in app folder right click and choose "Show packaged content". It's in that folder.

+Expose: Everything off (-) .I have to use expose function, though.
It's too sweet to be disabled.

+Quick time: I forgot. I think you can uncheck something here. Maybe it's the auto updater.

+Mouse: trackpad- uncheck the "click". I think it's better to uncheck the "ignore accidental", but i don't do this. Shortcuts-uncheck everything you don't use.

+ I forgot the rest for the System Preference Optimize. But the keyword is uncheck (or check) and delete everything you don't use. Check the Activity Monitor to see what is in active. AppleModemOnHold cannot be disabled. It depends on the machine you use. (I'm back to OS10.3.6 and suddenly this APPLEMODEMONHOLD is gone. Dunno why.)

+Apple-Modem-On-Hold: You can remove or delete this if you are not using the phone-jack. It is located in macHD/System/Library/Extensions/IOSerialFamily.kext/Contents/PlugIns/InternalModemSupport.kext/Contents/Resources/AppleModemOnHold.app
I just removed it.

+ Before installing Live4, make sure you use the OSX disk1 to repair and verify both the mac and the external HDD. You can do this as much as you want.

+ Now you are ready. Go to the Ableton's site and download the latest demo for your LIVE4. Repair it with OSX disk1.

+ Activate the Live4. Enter the serial number. Unlock it. If something goes wrong force quit it. It would be all right once you activate the Live again. I do not know why it's doing this. Now, repair it with the OSX disk1 as much as you want. it's your baby.

+ Watch out for Pluggo related VSTs in your VST folder. You may need to install it again. If anything goes wrong, don't worry, just force quit it. Repair it.

+Check the vsts and AUs that don't work with live4. I actually tested with my live4 and many of my plugins crashed my set. Delete or remove the plugins that don't appear, and try to test each one in the plugin folder in your live4. There is a good chance it's going to crash your set just being in your folder. It crashed me more than 10 times when I did the test. You have to Use them and test it whether it work or not.

+ Activate "Monolingual" if you like. Use it & repair it.

+ Activate "ONYX". Use it to optimize the system completly. You can delete cashes & stuff if you like. Repair it.

+Deleate the rewire engines that you don't use. I deleated everything.
Whatever that is necessary, it will be recreated automatically when you use the actual rewire. <thx to +1 for the advice>
the rewire engine is located in:
<your home drive>/Library/Application Support
And/or:
<your home drive>/Users/<YOU>/Library/Application Support


+ Use the disk utility on disk 1 and disable the "Journaling" for your every HDD from the top menu>file>disable journaling. This will improve your hard disk's data flow. Especially Audio data.

+ REPAIR IT FOR THE VERY LAST TIME. Yes, use the OSX disk1.

+ Never Update anything beyond this point. Be causious. You should repair it once a week or whenever you install anything. (I lied. I updated to os10.3.7. Yes, I know)


+ Done. Kiss your mama good night.

To figure out and everything, it took me about two days to do this.
Once you know the methods, you can do this in around eight hours.
Yeah, it's a huge pain but it's worth it, and you will know it.
I hope there is a big on your face, now.
Good luck !

P.S.
+ I definately recommend to use the disc1's(panther) Disk Utility app, and restore your whole HD to any ext-HD for meintenace at regular basis. It's going to save you tons of time when anything goes wrong with the orginal mac HD and the OSX. You can just copy&paste and overwrite the complete OSX with it. You can use the "Partation" feature for the backup. I recommend to use the second partation for it. I heard the first partation will spin faster, and has better advantage in seek time.Also, if you have a os-bootable-ext-HD, you can run your OSX from that, too. Firewire800-HD works fantastic. Great data flow. I recommend theLogitec's HD, because it has the habs for the FW800+FW400+USB. It's real easy. try em. Wish I knew this feature earlier. Now that I know, we share.


P.P.S.
after I done this, yes my system got better, but still there was this audio glitch.(very few, though) This is how I knew that the problem was from my audio interface. I changed from motu828mk2 to RME Multiface and PROBLEM SOLVED!
I'm scoring around 0-1ms of latencies on my live gig without the infamous audio glitch. Even this optimization may not make your problem get solved completely, still it's the best(so far) optimization trick for your DAW, and there is a better chance to know where your problem is actually coming from. And it is worth your time. REALLY, GOOD LUCK !
Last edited by sniffio on Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:18 pm, edited 19 times in total.

sniffio
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:21 pm

links

Post by sniffio » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:21 pm

here's one link that's worth posting.
it's really good.
Great optimization techs for DAW.

http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_tracking_big_cats/

et
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:09 pm

thanks Sniffio!, I'll give it a try,.....

Post by et » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:14 pm

Thanks for your time.

sniffio
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:21 pm

Post by sniffio » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:19 pm

you're very welcome.
Glad to know someone appriciated.
thx

by-pass
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Location: Geneva // Sweetzerland
Contact:

Post by by-pass » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:46 pm

Thx for the help....
but i have found to ... one reason or 2 for live bug with my config.
I have a m-audio firewire audiophile... and this card is only in 24bit, I think so for use with many samples and virtual instruments, the cpu load much made the audio drop out , If I use my internal sound card my cpu consume less (env 20-40% depend the live set)......

anybody have the same config(audio card ) and have the same pro?

see you

fil
--> for info: http://www.music0films.info
--> Material:
  • Macpro, Yamaha 01X, APC 40, Novation Nocturn 25 , Ableton Live + Max4live + Serato Scratch Live
  • Macbook pro, RME multiface, Korg nanoPAD, nanoKeys, Ableton Live + Max4live

sniffio
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:21 pm

Post by sniffio » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:10 pm

sorry to hear that.
I've seen many MOTU troubled posts
but I've seen more with the M-audio.
It's pretty famous with the M-audio.

Unfortunately, no support with the company, I heard.

good luck

sniffio
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:21 pm

Post by sniffio » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:11 pm

you can use RME multiface like I do.
It's the best stabled I/F.
You won't regret it.
Check it out.

by-pass
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:23 pm
Location: Geneva // Sweetzerland
Contact:

Post by by-pass » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:18 pm

thx for the advice....
my plan is buy one new sound card in january.

My selection for the moment is :
RME multiface
or
Motu traveller(available in january)

I wait the motu(good price and format for travel) but I wait some user experienced too... I dont want pay for material dont work well
--> for info: http://www.music0films.info
--> Material:
  • Macpro, Yamaha 01X, APC 40, Novation Nocturn 25 , Ableton Live + Max4live + Serato Scratch Live
  • Macbook pro, RME multiface, Korg nanoPAD, nanoKeys, Ableton Live + Max4live

nobbystylus
Posts: 1067
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:32 pm
Location: london

Post by nobbystylus » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:00 am

one thing that i've found.. thats definitalely worth checking (and i've had dropouts since way back v3.01) is that you only have one ReWire engine installed on your machine.. (OSX) i did a search for ReWire on my machine and found that not only did i have 'ReWire engine', but i also had 'ReWire engine Demo' installed.. which i removed.. and hey presto my drop outs stopped..
http://www.myspace.com/wardclerk
http://www.myspace.com/bighairufreqs
LIVE 8.21/ Reaktor 5.51/VDMX/Quartz Composer

by-pass
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Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:23 pm
Location: Geneva // Sweetzerland
Contact:

Post by by-pass » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:41 am

thx

i go to test this option :-)

fil
--> for info: http://www.music0films.info
--> Material:
  • Macpro, Yamaha 01X, APC 40, Novation Nocturn 25 , Ableton Live + Max4live + Serato Scratch Live
  • Macbook pro, RME multiface, Korg nanoPAD, nanoKeys, Ableton Live + Max4live

sniffio
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:21 pm

Post by sniffio » Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:36 pm

>>Nobbystylus
How do you check your rewire engines ???
I usually don't rewire,
but if there is a demo riwire, I would like to deleate it.
Any advice appriciated/
Do I go to the System preference on OSX ?
need a littte specific advice here.
tomorrow is my first gig.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11421
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:16 am

Hi guys, just want to warn you against wasting your time with the deletion of languages and fonts. I did all that and got ZERO improvement in both the Live performance test on this board, and the fractel carbon he uses in his article.
I think his intentions were good, but it just doesn't help. In fact over at OSXAudio I went through every part of the procedure with the writer, and he has not been able to tell me why I see ABSOLUTELY NO GAIN from his 'optimizations'. Other programmer types have backed up my suspicions on this, that he's just not conducting a very scientific test on his system, then claiming improvement...

Anyway, I'm all for a lean system, but it was way too much work reinstalling all my audio software, time I could have spent making music etc..

The only CPU trick I know that works is turning off the internet and airport card.

+1
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sniffiosniffiosniffos solution

Post by +1 » Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:55 pm

Hehehe

I think not....
If what explained by sniffer would acctually work, I would never use a mac again - you can't give advise with out trying at least 3 times and see if all results are the same...

I have the Audio dropout problem on two tracks only - And I have 50 - 60 tracks that works with no problems at all.

I'm sure that its a little more complex than "permissions"

Then offcourse i have glitches - but they can be removed by doing a fade in/out on each clip in the envelope editor... and yes I know all about the clip fade in/out button - but it just doesent work that well


And I must say that I still love Live....

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