TIP: making Live work in SONG strucure

[SongCarver]

how to use live with multiple signatures, and song structures
info@songcarver.com


if you're like me, you like to work in a 'song' type structure - ie VERSE VERSE CHORUS etc.

Live is not really setup to handle this sort of thing when writing, so this is a simple and powerful hack.


It allows you to

-Make scenes follow one another
-Move, copy and rehearse with structure like VERSE, CHORUS, BREAKDOWN etc
-Allows each section to be in a different TIME SIGNATURE, and TEMPO

How to do it:

1)
Preferences
select on launch
select next scene on launch OFF

2)
now load up some midi routing utility, in OS X i use the excellent midipipe
to simply echo the midi in to midi out

3)
load live
make sure that your midi utility is selected in the active MIDI devices.

create a midi track. dont put any instruments in it

label it 'structure' or something similar

4)
The next steps basically setup a clip which triggers 'Next scene' then 'trigger selected scene' in Lives remote control.

then make a midi clip 1 bar long by double clicking
on the 1st beat, put in a midi note 1/16 long
now, move the loop offset marker to just AFTER that note
now make the length 4 bars

hit play on the clip
now quickly go into MIDI map mode
select the 'select next scene' button that appears when you are in this mode
select it, and wait for your track to send a midi note to that button
turn off midi map mode

delete that note, and add a different one, and go through the same MIDI map mode process, but this time for 'trigger current scene'

5)
the result will be this:


Structure clip:



MIDI Map settings:





So now when a strcuture clip plays, it will get to almost the end, select the next scene, and trigger that scene. The reason for moving the offset marker is that you can now put in any bar length and time signature and not need to muck with the offset marker to make sure the MIDI notes play at the very last second.

Now go and copy a bunch of these clips. Colour them something bright so you remember.








HOW TO USE:

• Remember to always trigger the scene, not the structure clip

• You can type in any bar length, and time signature in the structure clip. for time signatures that have divisions of 1/8 notes (eg 6/8, 9/8 etc), remember to set Launch quantization on the structure clips to 1/8 notes.

• If you type a tempo followed by 'BPM' in the master scene, that scene will change to the new tempo

• If you have preferences Scene Triggers Record ON, you can do nice things like starting from the previous VERSE, in order to record the CHORUS clip.

• To keep looping a section just turn off the structure track

• When you are finished, just enable arrange record, and you will have the structure laid out for you in the Arrange view.



This is the sort of thing I do

It's from a track I did a while ago while changes from 4/4 to 9/8 to 6/8 etc.

It's called "Giving Time". The singer was Anita Goldsworthy

http://homepage.mac.com/songcarver/Song ... g_Time.mp3


And no, I didn't do this in Live, but now i can :-D

If you found this tip helpful, let me know
SongCarver
info@songcarver.com

[benblue]

i will try this ASAP and definteily give you feedback.
thanks!

[steved]

My brain must work in a different way - I followed the explanation so far and then I went off on a tangent. What I have done is to set up the track in the same way as above - using midipipe etc. and then create a long midi clip.

Then I assign scene launch buttons to notes ( using my keboard to enter the notes).

Then I simple draw note into the midi clip each time I want a scene to change ( again, just before the bar as above).

I turn off the clip launch buttons in the rest of the track and then run the clip. As the song progresses the scenes are then launched automatically. I can then easily move the notes around the grid to try different song structures. I can create any number of these ' song structure' clips so I can try out/ jam with different song patterns while I remain in session view.

I have only just tried this and it works fine. The potential is a bit mind blowing. As well as triggering scenes, the following ideas spring to mind -

* you could control any parameter - turning effects on/off, triggering external midi devices.
* triggering one hit clips
* triggering other midi clips which themselves trigger certain patterns - maybe different drum loop patterns.

I would be very interested on anyones thoughts or ideas about how this type of structure could be used.

Steve.

[Mbazzy]

Yep, played with [variation on ] this myself during the beta and was VERY pleased at the time when I discovered that midi tracks continued to send midi data when in midi map mode [ eg. also the virtual keyboard-keyboard allows to map ] ... the possibilities are very broad ....

[SongCarver]

thats a great, different way to look at things


yeah!

[steved]

just tried to use the same method to turn an effect on - there seems to be a midi feedback loop 'cos the effect appears to turn on and then turn striaght off again .... I need to delve a little deeper .... hope I can get it to work.

Any ideas ?

[steved]

If I use D sharp to switch an effect on this is what happens ...

11:39:03.221 From MidiPipe Output 1 Note On 16 D#3 127
11:39:03.225 From MidiPipe Output 1 Note Off 16 D#3 0
11:39:03.221 To MidiPipe Input 1 Note On 16 D#3 127
11:39:03.225 To MidiPipe Input 1 Note Off 16 D#3 0

When I trigger a clip using C this is what I get ....

11:41:29.260 From MidiPipe Output 1 Note On 16 C3 100
11:41:29.260 To MidiPipe Input 1 Note On 16 C3 100
11:41:29.805 From MidiPipe Output 1 Note Off 16 C3 0
11:41:29.805 To MidiPipe Input 1 Note Off 16 C3 0

The clips carries on playing ( which is what I want ) but the effect turns and and then turns straight off again .... Any ideas ?

[steved]

I had the remote control output to midipipe ( in preferences ) turned on. Switching this off solved the problem and turning effects on and off using above method now works. Mmmm .... what shall I try now?

[SongCarver]

not sure... any more info?

[steved]

Following on from the above efforts I've now discovered Midi Control clip envelopes. Follow the instructions as above - create a midi track but don't put an instrument in. Use midipipe and delete all the unwanted clip fire buttons in the track.

Now just create an empty clip - the length will depend on what automation you plan.

In the envelopes menu at the bottom of the screen it chould say Midi control in a small box. Under this you can select any control parameter. You can then draw using the pen tool to automate these.

Example. Lets imagine you want to start a song by fading in while at the same increasing the tempo gradually ( You can even do this while triggering different scenes or clips )

* make sure you have the midi out set to a channel that you are not likely to use - say 16

* Use the midi learn function to alocate cc's to the master fader and tempo. I have a Pocket Dial which I used to do this .... I 'm not sure how you do it without a midi controller.

* Then draw your envelops and play the clip.

The beauty of this is that it is independent of triggering clips and scenes, so you can create all sorts of envelops that you can trigger at will . Even better, you can save these as part of your template and build on them as you go. I guess if you wanted to trigger the clip as part of a scene then you could just copy it into the relevant slot in the grid.

Rapid panning, eq changes etc. You name you can automate it.
Name each clip , colour them bright ( it's hard not to with the new clip colours )

Again, any clevers uses of above tip would be more than welcome.

[Machinate]

Hi Steve!
Excellent job on this!

The beauty of this is that it is independent of triggering clips and scenes, so you can create all sorts of envelops that you can trigger at will . Even better, you can save these as part of your template and build on them as you go. I guess if you wanted to trigger the clip as part of a scene then you could just copy it into the relevant slot in the grid.

Even better than that: You can export them as midi files and keep them organized in folders! Perhaps a folder named fades, with files called something like: "Fade out ch1 4bars" or "Funky volume-mod ch2"

The downside is that the files have to be track-specific as far as i can tell? Which would mean that each track would need its own automation track? Is this right?
Andreas - (just turned midiyoke back on )

[steved]

The clips are created in an empty midi track - but the parameters that they control can certainly be global. So far I have automated the master fader, tempo, EQ4 on the master track, panning on the master track. You could however control track or bus specific parameters.

If you make a fade out clip - 16 bars long - turn off the track loop - then when you click it the track automatically fades to nothing.

There is one problem though - which is my next task ( I must have a lot of time on my hands today ). I'll use an example to illustrate -

Lets say want to slow down a track for dramatic effect - 110 down to 50 bpm , then fade back up to 110 bpm. The problem is - if I trigger another midi clip track before the fade has completed the new clip will continue with the tempo from where the fade had got to. So if you are not careful your could trigger the next clip and the tempo would then be stuck it say 96bpm.

This would not be a problem if you were very disciplined about making sure that midi control envelopes started and finished at the same value - and if you also made sure that you let the clip play all the way through. But thats kinda boring when you suddelny want a rapid pan and you have to stop to see whether the previeous clips is about to finish. Takes away the spontaneity.

I'm sure you can mess about with the launch modes - but I wanted to try and keep this as simple ( while at the same time ) as versatile as possible. I guess this is why I'm bothering messing about with this because the longer I can stay away from the linear structrure of the arranger the better. The arranger is good enough - but I suddenly start to miss logic with it's folders, freezes, hides , mutes, etc. etc.

Have you tried exporting these midi clips ? - and are they saved with all the clip envelopes - I'll have to give it a go.

[SongCarver]

. I'll use an example to illustrate -

Lets say want to slow down a track for dramatic effect - 110 down to 50 bpm , then fade back up to 110 bpm. The problem is - if I trigger another midi clip track before the fade has completed the new clip will continue with the tempo from where the fade had got to. So if you are not careful your could trigger the next clip and the tempo would then be stuck it say 96bpm.

What I'd love to see here is ableton implement a sort of
'contiguos' launch mode. If another clip is already playing on that track, then it only commences playing when the previous one finishes/ hits loopend.


I've got no simple solution though. I'm sure one could be cooked up, and it would go something like this.

You set up two ' controller tracks'. One is the 'logic' (not the sequencer) track. It's job is to remember if a clip is playing or not.



The clips which are on the left 'tempo track' (tempo1) are setup to fire the clip on lower diagonal right.
HOWEVER, as soon the clip on tempo2 fires, it sends a message to TURN off the left tempo track.

So now, any triggering of that scene will not stop the tempo2 track.



There are LOTS of combinations, the trick to to be able to do it simply.

:-D

K

[Machinate]

Have you tried exporting these midi clips ? - and are they saved with all the clip envelopes

Yup, worked like a charm!

I'd say this approach is definitely more useful for the global and structural changes than for applying automation to individual tracks.

I think I'll do a folder with cc sweeps on a number of different channels and try some stuff out - I'm with you: *as simple as possible*

[steved]

I've found the best use for these midi Ctrl envelopes - to modulate the loop start ( and any other parameter ) in Simpler. This works really well.

Set up simpler so its being triggered by a string of the same 1 / 32nd notes

add a delay - any other effects

Creat a simple modulation clip that controls the loop start point - different clips for different length modulations

Voila - you have instant sweeping.

If you have a control box - assign all the other Simpler parameters, the delay parameters etc . to it

Trigger the 1/32nd clip and then choose your sweep clip. Mess with the other parameters, drop in different wavs ..... and you realise a couple oh hours ( at least ) has flown by.

The 1/32 notes constantly playing act like a tape head scrubbing across the wave.


Have fun.