The session view automation maximum value crap :(

Idonotlikebroccoli · Post by **Idonotlikebroccoli** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:35 pm

I wish to have track 3 play *louder* in the scene where the clip is orange

I go to automate the volume, but what? It's already set to maximum, despite the fader being set to -26dB? That makes very little sense.

I now have to set the volume for this scene as the maximum, and adjust the rest accordingly from that value. (or create a new track at a lower volume) Lame.

I know this is a known issue, and probably so that things don't get fucked up in arrangement view (?) It is still however one of the major annoyances in Live, which has caused me frustration many times.

While I'm at it, I'll add some subliminal messaging:

LFOPLZLFOPLZLFOPLZLFOPLZ

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:19 pm

what you are requesting is absolute automation in session view and it's a big fat +1 from me

roby · Post by **roby** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:42 pm

yeah, i've requested this several times as well

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Soma · Post by **Soma** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:47 am

? This is how the clip automation always works. It is a % of the value set by the GUI control. The arrange view will automate the actual GUI.

For me the way it works is great. It provides a way to automate relative to an arangement. Much like an LFO or envelope on a synth.

If you want the orange clip to be louder, make the clip volume for the other clips less than 100% (what you really want is the other clips to be quieter)

It could be nice if you could automate one parameter absulte for each device on a clip: on/off (then you could add a utility with gain and automate that one on and off) but that would probably confuse most users.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:03 am

Soma wrote:? This is how the clip automation always works. It is a % of the value set by the GUI control. The arrange view will automate the actual GUI.

For me the way it works is great. It provides a way to automate relative to an arangement. Much like an LFO or envelope on a synth.

If you want the orange clip to be louder, make the clip volume for the other clips less than 100% (what you really want is the other clips to be quieter)

It could be nice if you could automate one parameter absulte for each device on a clip: on/off (then you could add a utility with gain and automate that one on and off) but that would probably confuse most users.

we need relative/absolute buttons on the clips

roby · Post by **roby** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:06 am

forge wrote:
Soma wrote:? This is how the clip automation always works. It is a % of the value set by the GUI control. The arrange view will automate the actual GUI.

For me the way it works is great. It provides a way to automate relative to an arangement. Much like an LFO or envelope on a synth.

If you want the orange clip to be louder, make the clip volume for the other clips less than 100% (what you really want is the other clips to be quieter)

It could be nice if you could automate one parameter absulte for each device on a clip: on/off (then you could add a utility with gain and automate that one on and off) but that would probably confuse most users.
we need relative/absolute buttons on the clips

yep

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:12 am

roby wrote:yeah, i've requested this several times as well

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

+1

oh no, wait I can't add one, because it is a relative value to the absolute one.
crap.

roby · Post by **roby** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:17 am

here, i'll lower my value to -0.50 so other can add up to it...

Daim · Post by **Daim** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:58 am

well.. there could be a 20 page thread about this issue if people were smart enough use the search function of this board:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68227

anyway.. +1

Idonotlikebroccoli · Post by **Idonotlikebroccoli** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:52 am

Soma wrote:you could add a utility with gain and automate that

In this particular case, that would work, but not with any other automation.

Idonotlikebroccoli · Post by **Idonotlikebroccoli** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:21 pm

- "Oh yeah, automating the filter frequency to go higher than 4.66kHz on that one note would be awesome"

- *Hurries to the filter freq automation field*

- Wtf? Gah, the vertical automation space is maxed out, despite the filter frequency not being on its *real* max, 19.9kHz.

- Solution: Click on filter, ctrl+g, map filter freq to macro 1, set maximum value to 4.66kHz and minimum value to 19.9kHz, automate macro 1.

- Now, where was I?

- Damn.

robocop · Post by **robocop** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:31 pm

This modulation restriction ABSOLUTEly KILLS MY WORKFLOW.

Come Onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Soma · Post by **Soma** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:22 pm

forge wrote:
Soma wrote:? This is how the clip automation always works. It is a % of the value set by the GUI control. The arrange view will automate the actual GUI.

For me the way it works is great. It provides a way to automate relative to an arangement. Much like an LFO or envelope on a synth.

If you want the orange clip to be louder, make the clip volume for the other clips less than 100% (what you really want is the other clips to be quieter)

It could be nice if you could automate one parameter absolute for each device on a clip: on/off (then you could add a utility with gain and automate that one on and off) but that would probably confuse most users.
we need relative/absolute buttons on the clips

I would argue that absolute and relative modes fro clips would not be so easy for a user to understand. Been reading Jef Raskin and I agree that this creates a confusing MODE with a difference too different than the original.

However, if the envelope could create a nonlinear mapping from 0% to 100% with center = to the GUI's parameter value, then you have the ability of absolute automation with the same functionality as the current schema (0% to GUI value) with only ONE MODE (non modal).

For backward compatibility, old projects would have their envelopes adjusted to be in just the lower half of an envelope. This mode is Relative, bi_polar, and covers the range 0%-100%. I can draw some pictures later.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:32 am

Soma wrote:
forge wrote:
Soma wrote:? This is how the clip automation always works. It is a % of the value set by the GUI control. The arrange view will automate the actual GUI.

For me the way it works is great. It provides a way to automate relative to an arangement. Much like an LFO or envelope on a synth.

If you want the orange clip to be louder, make the clip volume for the other clips less than 100% (what you really want is the other clips to be quieter)

It could be nice if you could automate one parameter absolute for each device on a clip: on/off (then you could add a utility with gain and automate that one on and off) but that would probably confuse most users.
we need relative/absolute buttons on the clips
I would argue that absolute and relative modes fro clips would not be so easy for a user to understand. Been reading Jef Raskin and I agree that this creates a confusing MODE with a difference too different than the original.

However, if the envelope could create a nonlinear mapping from 0% to 100% with center = to the GUI's parameter value, then you have the ability of absolute automation with the same functionality as the current schema (0% to GUI value) with only ONE MODE (non modal).

For backward compatibility, old projects would have their envelopes adjusted to be in just the lower half of an envelope. This mode is Relative, bi_polar, and covers the range 0%-100%. I can draw some pictures later.

thanks for the link - I will finish reading it later, so without having read all of it I'll answer your point - firstly you would be trying to fit 200% into the space for 100% - too much is already squeezed into the bottom view of Live

I actually think your way would be more confusing because it is a change to the existing mode, but having a button would make it a clean cut - there are just different modes, either you enable it or you don't, and if you don't you never have to worry about it, ever.

I'm not sure why you think absolute/relative buttons would be more confusing than it is now - clip envelopes were introduced in Live 3 and we're up to 7 with 8 probably on it's way and there are still people who post asking "why do I have to turn up the sends before I can automate them?" etc

if there was a simple relative/absolute button then you could have it default to absolute for new clips, or set the default to whatever you like, and just have it set to relative for backwards compatibility and it would be exactly as it is now.

if you have it set to absolute we would have the groundwork for the session automation we all so badly want, allow hardware controllers to record straight in and we are there

if you play a clip with 'absolute' enabled and there is automation in the arrangement view then the 'BTA' light comes on and if you hit record it overwrites what is in there, that way you could have it on a per-track basis

and of course BTA buttons per track would help!

Soma · Post by **Soma** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:54 am

For some reason EQ8 has an absolute clip! You can adjust all values (including master gain) by + - 50% of absolute.

Try that.