Quite dissapointed to Sampler

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:28 pm

Poster wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:
Poster wrote: hhmm..
I was rather thinking about "less is less"

I was soooooooooooo enthousiastic about Sampler when first presented;
fantastic concept, great looks and integration..
and it makes a fantastic beat machine as well..

*dark clouds coming over*

but this afternoon I discovered the 'global parameter issue'..

what!?

a company as visionair as Ableton presenting us a sampler without solo zone editing?
what did them make that decision?
to be different?
this doesn't match with their reputation..

usebility/creativity drops with 200% i.m.h.o.

yeah, I know the workarround..
It's not a workaround. It's not like you're handling multiple vst's.
You're handling mulitple integrated devices. Which makes a stack of Samplers one device with a lot of options.
The key/velocity mapping is handled by the instrument rack that contains multiple devices.
Which can be ANYTHING. You can add impulse devices for choke groups, Simpler's for pitched percussion, operator/sampler with the sounds you created...
You can have individual effects for each device. Which also may contain a rack that responds to key/velocity....

It's not a workaround. It's the new way of working
I know what the stacked macro's can offer, trust me, Reason Combinator give's me loads of pleasure, but you cannot tell me that you have not thought about a split second why there's no solo zone editing..

Yeah, there's no point to argue. You just see it differently.
Sampler is not a replacement for kontakt/battery/NNXT/Dr rex/.....
Yes, i've wondered why there was no envelope for every sample on Sampler. But i didn't waste much time to see how multistacked Simplers do a nice multisampling job.
And how little cpu it all uses......

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:34 pm

hoffman2k wrote:And how little cpu it all uses......

that made me think in the first place....
this makes up for the global editing...

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:34 pm

Poster wrote:The reason why I was a bit dissappointed is that I thought stacking up 5 Samplers would eat all my cpu and therefore it would be a not so nice workarround..
Now I see that is not!!

too quick with my judgment

Hehe. And i was too late with my previous reply.

So yeah. It's way better in practise, because it will be very damned hard to write down the theory.

Just ask Angstrom now: "Do you think we'll be able to keep ourselves busy with the wiki during the next year?"

This is the chance for anybody who writes tips and tricks to become a novelist.

"Once there was this little German boy called ......"

Meef Chaloin · Post by **Meef Chaloin** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:45 pm

Poster wrote:The reason why I was a bit dissappointed is that I thought stacking up 5 Samplers would eat all my cpu and therefore it would be a not so nice workarround..
Now I see that is not!!

too quick with my judgment

yes thats how i thought it would work as well

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:50 pm

Live can still be a cpu hog. But only if you want it to be.
I can make patches with 1 operator and fx that overload my cpu.

Yet i can play a stack of 100 operators if i want to. With no modulation, that uses about 40-50 % on my dual g5 1.8

I haven't been able to push the impulse stacks beyond 35% though. And believe me, I've tried hard

ze2be · Post by **ze2be** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:01 pm

hoffman2k wrote: Sampler is not a replacement for kontakt/battery/NNXT/Dr rex/.....
Yes, i've wondered why there was no envelope for every sample on Sampler. But i didn't waste much time to see how multistacked Simplers do a nice multisampling job.
And how little cpu it all uses......

Sweet sweet sweet. Live is turning into an integrated modular sampler/synth system. That is just wicked! Almost transparent. Drag and drop audio files, freshly recorded from the session, into sampler, patch it up, resample a jam of it etc etc...endless possibilities, go crazy!

The sampler is an integrated part of the live 6 modular system, that is way cooler then just another vst sampler!

The way it works with live now, you can do everything that you can do in kontakt... or not? How deep are the racks?

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:44 pm

peeks through the crack in the door
eases in while everyone is gathered round the punch bowl
yells SliCER!!!
and then runs out of the room

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:52 pm

stale bread wrote:peeks through the crack in the door
eases in while everyone is gathered round the punch bowl
yells SliCER!!!
and then runs out of the room

crowd chasing the yeller,
runs for his life,
yeller nailed to the ground,
and SLICED in...

peaces

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:52 pm

stale bread wrote:peeks through the crack in the door
eases in while everyone is gathered round the punch bowl
yells SliCER!!!
and then runs out of the room

Am I the only one who see's the joke in "Stale Bread" asking for a "Slicer"?
If you were "Freshly Baken Bun", then you would probably get around with chopping and pastry

A baguette would go thru the gate plugin. Nicely chopped slices

drez · Post by **drez** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:18 pm

hoffman2k wrote:It's not a workaround. It's not like you're handling multiple vst's.
You're handling mulitple integrated devices. Which makes a stack of Samplers one device with a lot of options.
The key/velocity mapping is handled by the instrument rack that contains multiple devices.
Which can be ANYTHING. You can add impulse devices for choke groups, Simpler's for pitched percussion, operator/sampler with the sounds you created...
You can have individual effects for each device. Which also may contain a rack that responds to key/velocity....

It's not a workaround. It's the new way of working

Actually, Reason has been doing this for awhile now with the combinator so I wouldn't exactly call it new (I guess new to Live users)...

...but I am estatic that Ableton has jumped on this type of modular environment. It makes it all the easier for me to get my head around it and gives everyone more flexibility than they think!

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:24 pm

drez wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:It's not a workaround. It's not like you're handling multiple vst's.
You're handling mulitple integrated devices. Which makes a stack of Samplers one device with a lot of options.
The key/velocity mapping is handled by the instrument rack that contains multiple devices.
Which can be ANYTHING. You can add impulse devices for choke groups, Simpler's for pitched percussion, operator/sampler with the sounds you created...
You can have individual effects for each device. Which also may contain a rack that responds to key/velocity....

It's not a workaround. It's the new way of working
Actually, Reason has been doing this for awhile now with the combinator so I wouldn't exactly call it new (I guess new to Live users)...

...but I am estatic that Ableton has jumped on this type of modular environment. It makes it all the easier for me to get my head around it and gives everyone more flexibility than they think!

New way of working with "Live" Live.....

Geez, you leave out one little word

But yeah, the possibility's are beyond anybody's comprehension. More room for experimentation. Especially without a bloody manual

Robert Henke · Post by **Robert Henke** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:45 pm

( imagine dramatic chords in b/g, and sonore US american radio speaker voice here:)

We dream of a world, where the source of a sound can be anything, and the organisation of these sounds is completely decoupled from the origin.
We dream of a world, where one can replace a Bassdrum by a Bassdrum, regardless of how it has been made.
We believe, that the concept of a multisampler as a host for drum sounds is a technical restriction of the past. The same goes for beat slicing. There must be better ways for this. We are working on it and once we found a good solution we will release it. Racks is a first step into our new world. We will collect experiences and we will refine.

And, yes. The fact that you cannot control sampe sstart, loop start and loop length in Sampler directly via MIDI or automation / clip envelopes is NOT part of a brilliant new concept, it is just not finished yet, and unfortunaltely i cannot even promise it will be in in 6.0. The only statement i can give here is, that i am also missing it like hell and will make sure it`s priority will remain high.....

Cheers, Robert

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:50 pm

Robert Henke wrote: And, yes. The fact that you cannot control sampe sstart, loop start and loop length in Sampler directly via MIDI or automation / clip envelopes is NOT part of a brilliant new concept, it is just not finished yet, and unfortunaltely i cannot even promise it will be in in 6.0. The only statement i can give here is, that i am also missing it like hell and will make sure it`s priority will remain high.....
Cheers, Robert

Imagine sound of bald Englishman talking to bald German man:

I thought you had lost the plot old bean!

well, hopefully it can make its way into one of the point revisions as it's a useful function. I like to twiddle knobs to produce the nasty noise rather than leaving it all up to the computer . It makes me feel involved!

deva · Post by **deva** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:55 pm

I can find no way to control sample pitch or play speed independently in Sampler... no timestretching facility at all?

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:08 pm

deva wrote:I can find no way to control sample pitch or play speed independently in Sampler... no timestretching facility at all?

Look in some of the other sampler discussions (!) or look at the preset SweetJesus linked to in the beginning of this thread.. It's called something with "Timestretch"...